Bird Flu and the Borders/Quarantine plans for WC Scenario?

Asian social and Economics Impact of Avian Flu Could be Large
N.O.A.A. photo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051103/ap_on_bi_ge/bird_flu_economic_impact_4

GaryCGibson - 06:26pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

What will the President do if the chicken flu shows up in Europe or elsewhere in human beings; immediately quarantine flights from those countries and wait to see if travelers develop signs of the flu before letting them out of sick bay?

If the flu becomes transmitted to human beings, will the President actually make a serious effort to prevent illegal aliens from bringing the flue into the U.S. from Mexico-where it could be brought to Nuevo Laredo, Ensenada or wherever by traveling sexcationers from Europe visiting brothels?

If chicken flu can terminate the lives of a million Americans-is it worth cutting off the flow of illegal alien migrant workers to the Gulf Coast, or should New Orleans be renamed Nuevo Isabella to reflect the pre-Orleanist/De Iberville state of affairs?

On the other subject, what did the President know, and when did he know it? People are now asking the question about did the President have faulty intelligence when he went to battle with the Iraqis in 2003 that previously ridiculed the Presidents failure to select the right pronunciation of nation's names. The President that won't divulge all his academic transcripts for some reason is supposed to have the highest efficiency at though processing intelligence data...Saddam Hussein did order an assassination attempt on his Dad didn't he?

President Bush was not my choice for a second term nor was Senator Kerry a good choice after it was pointed out that he'd claim to be a war criminal or sort of one perhaps with jocularity.

The Democrats should talk about meaningful economic business and get off the digressions such as delaying approving a totally qualified SC nominee. Let good Justice O'Conner retire in peace for the Holiday Season to her beloved Arizona homestead for the roasting of pinion nuts and other traditional practices of that region. It was pinion nuts until all those trees started dying off because of global warming perhaps--it's too hot in New Mexico at least.

The democrats should recognize that there are perhaps 30,000 Sunni insurgents in Iraq active right now at bombing American soldiers with improvised devices and that wining about the American presence publicly does probably encourage the insurgency to get headlines.

The post-war insurgency in the remodeled and improved nation of Iraq is another affair than the war issue and it requires new skills and analysis to address politically. In simply being stupid and backward looking the intelligence failure is probably that of the Democratic Party right now.
The left right baloney in America is to some extent anachronistic while each party is stuffing Communist China with wealth and production opportunities to the detriment of the U.S.A. Black participation in U.S. labor unions is down to just 4 percent---they don't wear the union label!

The Wal-Marts cut these huge deals with intermediaries to produce cheap stuff in China putting Americans out of work and then convince Americans they are better off being just consumers. The trans-national neo-corporatist set want to move the Chi communes into a large corporate modality, and the Democrats want to meet the communes halfway with socialism, and the American individual is deleted and considered a leftist by the neo-corporatist organizational flunkies and an extreme right winger by the debauchery and socialism crowd.

While the federal debt is...wait a minute, $ 8, 048,856,092,004.37 and since Sept. 2005 the national debt increased about 3.48 billion per day the congress obsesses with non-economic issues unhappily. Its because they may each be somewhat un-American in being unable to see the forest for the trees. Yet their un-American attitude is what Americans are today... not resourceful enough!

GaryCGibson - 06:52pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

A good conservative these days sig-heils neo-corporatism, and a good leftist seigs or sings the internationale of socialism and statism...each obfuscates classical American liberalism with the dull beady eyes of incomprehension.

American individualism and independent national energy infrastructure need to be reinforced with favorable intentions in honorable legislation meeting constitutional muster. The United States should be considered with practical, objective appraisals from the outside in instead of the inside out. The environment matters!

GaryCGibson - 07:27pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT

These rant dumps (especially UZIL's) aren't helpful.

Plastic Blop, "Roberts Nominated as Next Chief Justice" 2 Nov 2005 6:59 pm

Of course I am not a Bush apologist...as one may infer from the post of which the fiction is a derivative.

I should note that I have limited computer time to reply to the Discussions occupation polemicists right now...

UZIL , "Roberts Nominated as Next Chief Justice" 2 Nov 2005 7:03 pm

UZIL's reading and rationalizing comprehension also seems somewhat off, and perhaps motivated by hate of some sort...only he knows for sure as both of these posters are anonymous or somewhat non-credible.

The avian flue is well known to be in Europe and elsewhere outside China but not yet in the Americas, and the news-reading public are also generally aware that it hasn't crossed over into human yet.

If the bird flue does cross over into humans, and not perhaps as UZIL might suppose by an infected chicken retracing Lindbergh's route to prove that birds are not genetically inferior to jet aircraft, and if the U.S. government takes any measures at all to protect it's people from mega-death by immigration of an infected legal alien or expatriate or vacationer or business person arriving at a U.S. legal entry portal, the effort can well be defeated by illegal alien entry.

That premise isn't racism it's reason. Illegal alien entry can subvert legal entry screening of infected Euros Chinese or even Mexicans.

My question in the original post was to ask if the Bush administration has a priori thrown in the towel on the advanced line of battle against the potential human transmitted version of the bird virus, and in effect surrendered the borders to illegal alien crossing with the bird flu virus potentially to unleash death upon thousands or millions of American citizens?

Its only a question, and I guess some would think that the potential association of prevention of illegal entry into the United States with Mexican nationals could indicate a drift toward racism when the Mexican people should be exempt from the laws of the United States when crossing into America in a more utopian and unbiased political paradigm...but does that premise extend to the need to allow a half million Americans to be bitten by the bird of death (a metaphor)?

Where would the forward line of be against biological war in the administration's best case scenario, and should they also move that line well within U.S. borders in case the vector of infection is a worse agent, but carried by 'Typhoid Pedro'?

I have opposed illegal alien entry into the U.S.A. for years because of the corrupting influence it has upon the American labor wage levels and political integrity. The administration perhaps claims an inability to police the border meaningfully to prevent all illegal entry, and it is thus a weak link in an effort to save the lives of possibly a million or two infected, vulnerable Americans if the disease does become humanly communicable with ease.

The United States has a Canadian and a Mexican border, the coast guard does a fair job against illegal alien boat entry, and airports can be quarantined. Is quarantine an obsolete effort against lethal biological virus? UZIL H seems to believe so, and considers it racist to use complete border security in the event of a world outbreak of the chicken flu; maybe he owns part of a mortuary?

My regrets to Yoda for UZils loose use of his name below.

GaryCGibson - 07:47pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

"Given this, and using the Bush theory of attacking the uninvolved, the best way (to Gary) of keeping the Flu out of the US is sealing the Mexican border."

-False

Quarantine is one method of preventing a population from being infected...I asked if the Bush administration had given up on that at the borders in the world infection scenario with initial outbreaks abroad?

The reaction to actual outbreaks of Chicken Flu would need to be quick, and the leaky southern border would flank leading edge of biological war containment efforts on the other three fronts mentioned abroad.

Of course the administration doesn't need to immediately implement effective border control before the crisis arises if it ever does. There are many supporters of illegal alien entry into the United States with or without catastrophic infections.

The administration seems to be putting out a less than comprehensive plan if it does have no intention of sanitizing the borders and air ports of entry as well as oceanic ports of entry. The actual methods the administration would put in place would need to exist before the crisis or they would be ineffective. Homeland Security should at least have a contingency plan to use in case it got ten days warning of a global outbreak of a fatality-causing virus.

I might add that the last Homeland Security Director innovated the clever idea of responding to bio or rad attacks with duct tape. Perhaps the present innovator will add an effective countermeasure like that alcohol based gel hand sanitizer guaranteed to kill 99% of known germs.

UZIL--we are talking about potential here, and preparedness. It’s a sort of prophylaxis against disease like an inoculation. Try reading the above post. Incidentally Microsoft Live will be available for software and other development with online storage soon...and it's supposed to be free.

Gary C Gibson. - 09:20am Nov 3, 2005 EDT
God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

It is amazing how the radical left simply disregards content and libels with deranged versions of content made by fictious inspiration I guess.

I wrote about lethal bird flu/chicken flu and such with easily recognizable terminology to those without rough ESL skills. There are no known cases of human-to-human flu contacts through easily communicable means such as breathing or sneezing. Most infections/deaths from are not human-to-human http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/

In the H5N1 outbreak in Hong Kong 1.5 million chickens were killed because they gave the virus to people. There have been other versions since 1997.
CDC quote...
"H5N1, Hong Kong, Special Administrative Region, 1997: Highly pathogenic avian influenza A (H5N1) infections occurred in both poultry and humans. This was the first time an avian influenza A virus transmission directly from birds to humans had been found. During this outbreak, 18 people were hospitalized and six of them died. To control the outbreak, authorities killed about 1.5 million chickens to remove the source of the virus. Scientists determined that the virus spread primarily from birds to humans, though rare person-to-person infection was noted."

These basic parameters are fairly well known. Quarantine measures are another traditional way to prevent communicable disease...one that seems a horrid possibility to UZIL for some reason.

On the subject of protecting all of America's borders against large numbers of infected individuals (some 200,000 cross from Mexico in some months perhaps with a high chance to pass on communicable disease should such develop one day in Mexico) the question was what the administration plans to do about it, if anything. UZIL of course uses ad hominem and straw man attacks on me for bringing the issue up. He also uses misleading viral snippets to try to create a sense of futility in the effort to contain disease pathogens from proliferating within the U.S.A. over international borders.

On the idea of the California Congressman to spend a couple billion to build a snipable fence that could not be completely effective without electrification from solar power collectors, I suggest that instead a cost study/engineering feasibility study and such be done along with environmental impact research to determine the possibility of building a small boat canal along the southern border from the Gulf of Mexico to Phoenix connecting to the Gulf of California or Sea of Cortez and conquistadores would say.

The 1800 mile canal approx. would have many lochs and lagoons, and would be supplied with saltwater pumped in tube siphons between the Gulf of Mexico and Pacific...perhaps extra pipelines could be used to generate electricity with the difference in Sea level between the two oceans on either side of North America. California could get the fence, or the canal could be extended somewhat beyond El Centro California although it could never co over the Mountains to San Diego and the Pacific. Maybe retiring Justice O'Conner could lead the Project to create an American small boat canal and recreational waterway with border security features for the new Port of Phoenix.

CDC quote "H5N2 in Texas – 2004

In February 2004, an outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) A (H5N2) was detected and reported in a flock of 7,000 chickens in south-central Texas. This was the first outbreak of HPAI in the United States in 20 years."

Did the Texas mad cow case involve a Mexican steer? Did this Texas chicken virus involve birds from Chihuahua?

If an outbreak of a human wildfire pathogen develops in Mexico it could be brought here by illegal aliens.

Nominee Alito/Vietnam War-Iraq War Issues/Monolithic Domes and Taxes

Gary C Gibson. - 06:22pm Oct 31, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

It would have better pr with Pricilla Owens as the nominee, yet the President's recalcitrance about appearing to have p& v made his selection logical.

It reminds me of the screenplay synoptic about an aging Montana motorcycle auto jumping champion that becomes set up by a corrupt federal politician from a southern state looking for a fall guy to advance his reelection...the aging jumper/former special forces dude hops and skips the U.S.A. to reach former contra colleagues in Nicaragua that help him return to break up the drug importation financed coup de main.

Actually there aren't many good movies out now, so I made that up.

Sen. Reed backed the loser for the first try to fill justice O’Connor’s seat, and he may lose again by seeking to filibuster the nomination. Since Tip O’Neal left his job as Speaker, the Democratic fortunes have continued a downhill slide...they just can't seem to pick winning issues, and won't save their ammo for battles they have a chance of winning.

The Democrats in Congress definitely should not filibuster and require the Republicans to invoke the nuclear option. Blocking lower court nominees is different than blocking Supreme Court appointments by an elected President and supported by a majority of congress. The Democrats should just sign off on Alito as the Republicans did on the very unconservative Ginsberg nomination, and respecting democracy cut their losses and look to 'next week'.

Democrats since the Clinton era haven't been able to evaluate with accuracy the chances of getting legislation through. They pick issues that are out of season or unfruitful, and hold onto them long past the time they would do any good. It’s rather remarkable how silly the Democratic leadership is sometimes.

Two political parties can be as useless as just one party in conserving the liberal rights of democracy it seems, and the nation may develop a resemblance to the former Soviet Union's statist fake democratic society in time in neo-corporatist or socialist garb.

If President Bush rally was serious about someone with no Judicial experience for the court, he should have just nominated Letterman or Leno, and got them to take crash legal courses to fill in until they could pass the bar in two or three years. Neo-Corporations have no need for real equal protection of laws, sound legal reasoning of a democratic society, or free expression by private citizens on internet blogs when they dissent with neo-corporatist brainwashing, so they might at least have enjoyed the humor of some college graduates, or alternatively, some public defenders that handle a dozen cases a day in D.C. might have understood the challenges the poor experience in a neo-corporatist, semi-statist society better than that highest social milieu of Dallas.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051031/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/vietnam_intelligence

Why the timing on this article? I read a fairly comprehensive report on the problems with the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' a year or two ago. Does this article add much information that wasn't known already. That article alleged that a navy was required to go out and fabricate an icident that never really happened...if I remember correctly.

Certainly the Bush administration falmmed up the wmd issue in order to sell the public on the 2003 war with Iraq so there are parallels with the Gulf of Tonkin Incident...but not many.
Vietnam was a war that was unwinnable if the Southerners wouldn't defend it themselves ultimately with the Laotian border and security problems as they were, while the Iraq conflict to terminate a regime allowing a democide to occur was a just cause, even though it upset 1000 contractors paying billions of kickbacks to Saddam Hussein in the oil for food program and was thus contentious in the U.N.

Gary C Gibson. - 09:00am Nov 1, 2005 EDT

Orde Wingate's mission had not been going 'several years' berfore he perished. It had been only operative several months. He was of course working against the Japanese occupation force with success. Often his specially selected people walked about.

Blogger did discern one point...the Vietnam War was perhaps classifiable as a 'loss', and as history it cannot be reversed in that context except through revisionism, where Arnolf Swarnetnagger defeated the forces at Dien bien Phu led by droids.

The Iraq war of 2003 was as the President declared a bit show-boatishly, a victory. The post war events are in a different nation building process that is already fundamentally successful.
With Soviet military support for the North Vietnamese rebels, and the legal impossibility of invading and occupying the north, stopping the war in the south wasn't likely, especially with the Ho Chin Minh trail of incursion improving in spite of operation igloo.

To 'win' the Vietnam war would hadve required an almost impossible border defense durting the cold war era. The object of the war in the L.B.J. administration was instead to intimidate the communists with shock and awe into quiping...a policy that continued during the Nixon administration as he began the regular withdrawl of American and U.N. forces simultaneously complied.

The Vietnam War was a proxie cold war casualty in the world battle against communism. If the Soviets and Americans had not been protagonists, perhaps Ho Chi Minh would have led the war against colonialism in a different direction.

The Orde Wingate query was simply a test question to demonstrate the sillyness of making substantive or lengthy replies to polemicists that havern't a meaningful historical; contribution to make on a subject such as that...Admiral Nelson and Vietnam Mark associated (what horse pitching inaccuracy)!

---

In case anyone missed the new planet discoveries...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_new_planet.html

Gary C Gibson. - 11:47am Nov 1, 2005 EDT

Taxes are sometimes used to encourage or discourage public policy. In Alaska the majority voted to prevent homo marriages, while the Supreme Court of Alaska retaliated by giving full health benefits to state employees homo live-ins. In effect the Alaska Supremes recognized de facto common law homo marriages. Courts can in effect veto public policy expressed by the majority, while taxation can be used to put intention upon public policy.

In Florida hurricane damage that is preventable with a little executive leadership or legislative foresight year after year piles up redistribution of tax dollars so people can buy storm shutters or whatever...new roof, fence, fruit trees, trailer through FEMA and other agencies while homeless people can just sort of marvel at how the haves get more.

Yet the failure of the state government to have adequate ecozoning and building design measures broadly available along with home-power alternate energy sources such as wind, solar and fuel cell generators is a consequence of the neo-corporatist drift of establishment inflexibility that cumulatively stagnates alterity; change is bad for already producing business technology.

When ossification through neo-corporatism becomes too pervasive even extending to broadcast media attack on Internet start-ups and government complicity dumbs down the free market through lack of renewable invention and innovation in technology on the largest scale budget deficits and foreign borrowing to fund a dysfunctional economy ensue.

Sound taxation would tax home energy consumption, and fuel consumption from fossil fuel based sources in order to encourage domestically produced alternate, independent energy generation.

Sunday I had 16 spare points so I advertised my poem 'Three Bolts More' on allpoetry.com for one click. I'd written the poem after watching a lightening storm from a Baptist Church porch during heavy rain in Florida (I was riding a bike). I'd just finished the bulk of painting a non-Baptist Church, unlike the Baptist Church I couldn't finish in West Texas last October because they kept changing the color, the weather got cold, and it wasn't possible for me to charge more (I did not want too). The paint line reached halfway up the wall to the colored glass and the dove/spirit of God. When the Baptist minister was electrocuted in Waco in a Baptismal font yesterday I was surprised-yet it seemed a remarkable coincidence.

Electricity need not be such a strange thing with ongoing power outages from WILMA in Florida...some independent home power should be encouraged.

Square metal buildings in the south that become solar toaster-ovens without vast volumes of centrally produced electricity for air conditioning should be taxed more than monolithic concrete domes with an effective r-value of 80. Even monolithic domes with a cost of just 85 dollars per square foot should have alternate, independent power supply to power low wattage fans to bring in outside air if they are used for storm shelters. With a 100 people in a non-air conditioned hotbox the atmosphere become unbreathable very fast as the oxygen is depleted by all that lung air intake.

Automobiles that run on non-fossil fuels and that don't require any foreign fuel of any sort to operate should be exempt from taxes entirely.

Noah and the Endangered Species Act

If the Cheney/Bush axis of oil had read the book of Genesis with more devotion, perhaps they might have discerned the allocation of ship resources that God let the animals have aboard the ship of refuge for all living things during the flood. God had given Noah the order to save all the endangered species, and Noah followed that order without promulgating an endangered species act.

Plainly it was intended that the Earth have a healthy and ongoing ecosystem into the indefinite future replete with a sustainable environmental infrastructure of which mankind would become guardian. One may thus ask; has the Bush/Cheney administration been a good environmental steward, or have they even accomplished so much as burying the one talent in the ground so that they would not lose it because their master was known to be wroth if his vassals did not turn a profit?

Sin originally meant to miss the mark of an archery target; the Bush administration has sinned in pursuing filthy lucre to the detriment of the environment. It has not accentuated the positive opportunities of eco-engineering and green technological development, and has even cast out the token 'libruhl' to take the fall in its obsessive pursuit of regressive environmental nihilism based infrastructure rotting.

Brian Green noted that Leibniz and Newton pondered the nature of absolute space in pursuit of cosmological physics development. Leibniz was a relativist and Newton an absolutist who believed space had it's own unique content or character regardless of the mass, stars, planets etc in it. Green noted that Galileo had already become aware of the relational nature of speed of objects moving constantly, and that Descartes had noted that it was with acceleration that resistance increased. Newton attributed the resistance of acceleration to the character of space for-itself.

Yet it is quite possible that with the ten or eleven dimensional character of string theoretical or M-Theoretical space, space does not exist at all, and instead the void of space is a comparative or relational attribute given by the anthropic perception principle of implicit features and protocols of mass and perception. Mass may be all that exists, and for-itself in ten dimensions, while as Leibniz speculated, spirit may be the ultimate 'ground' of space or mass.

Insertion of a beach ball made in 2007 Trenton NJ with led readouts, solar powered, and glow in the dark characteristics through a time-machine to Genoa in the 10th century would not have given a clue to the finder about where or how it was made, or what the manufacture plant looked like. God produced the universe human intellect perceives, yet one cannot discern much about the producer from the produced.

The Universe is a product albeit with finely tuned strings and possible dimensions-yet possibly even the dimensions and quantum theory are very primitive attempts to understand the incomprehensible realm of Absolute Spirit. Sin may mean to miss the object of returning to a perfect relationship with the Spiritual producer of the Creation. Spirit produced the Universe, yet the obsessive wish to worship it even if in economic gluttony.

The flood could refer to the one that rent in the Black Sea Basin, or the Mediterranean basin millions of years ago when the blockage at the strait below the hill (gib) alter was overcome by the Atlantic, or even just a Euphrates flood to the mountains of Urartu--or even an extra-dimensional time change...its a matter of faith.

$25 K-Mart Tent Survives Hurricane Wilma

This 25 dollar K-Mart tent survived Hurricane Wilma on the treasure coast of Florida. The highest sustained wind was about 101 mph, and the highest gust might have been 160. In pitching a tent for Hurricane Category 2 or 3 location is everything. The tent should not be underneath trees with large branches, and should be in the midst of protecting foliage such as palmettos.

Florida cities should learn to use folliage to reduce wind damage to flimsy human structures with good eco-architecture.

If riding a bicycle from one location to another during the passage of the eye of the storm, one must be quick about it. Since the worst part of the Hurricane is the 30 or 40 hours of radio talk devoid of entertaining storm music…the pathos, glory, fear, anecdotes and so forth can become stressful compared to the weather phenomena that has nice tonal characteristics an interesting secondary visual phenomena.

I do not recommend hurricane camping for tenters, yet it is possible to endure brief hurricanes without much difficulty evidently.

Gary C Gibson. - 10:01am Oct 27, 2005 EDT (#2584 of 2595)
"History is Philosophy teaching by examples."--Thucydides

It is good that Ms. Miers has joined the set of rejected Supreme Court Justices so that a sound classical American liberal judge can be nominated.

The individual should be a solid supporter of the United States instead of a trans-nationalist flunkie of the Bush zaibatsu. It is interesting that the Bushes have a tendency to nominate unmarried people that are as less conservative than Gloria Steinhem perhaps.

One would hope that the justice restores American individualism to the possible range of interpretations of the constitution. Debauchery and socialism should be considered essentially private issues, and not become subject to ratification and assurance of support by the court as they seek to intrude into public areas.

The broadcast media should be put back in the box of Steven King like Hurricane horror toys that the governor of Florida would need that author's glasses to imagine. The broadcast media should become an internet frequency tool. Democracy in general should be prioritized in the neo-corporatist era. Imagine a 'conservative' tak radio host actively supporting environmentalism and modern environmental technology...ha ha!

The poor Floridians without power now could use some wind generators...while not a contractor I would be available for employment painting or installing air generators by the hour...

http://www.windenergy.com/

Florida...that neo-communist state, has made unlicensed contracting a felony crime and solidly joined Fidel Castro's approach to free enterprise.

Protecting the elderly from contracting fraud could have been accomplished without suberting the heart and foundation of free enterprise that exists in improvisational contract labor. I have done highest quality paint contracting with the customer's materials on my recommendation, and tools in several states...and in none other did an effete ruling class decree honest work a felony offense.

It is there silly anti-eco-zoning regs that allow flimsy arboreal selection to place thousands and millions of badly located, unnaturally selected trees into vulnerable locations...as well as flimsy unwindtunnel tested building designs, flimsy traffic lights, stupid power structures without enough independent home power, public utlity lines subject to windfall, foreign dependent fossil fuel power internal combustion engines instead of fuel cell and battery electric combination power plant etc...

The felony should be in the complacent, pampered, corrupt,blimp decadent prosperous jackgucci booted thugs that never think for-themselves and inertial roll on with conformity being the greates virtue. What ever happened to American ingenuity?...Outsourced to China obviously.

Points of Interest in Job 38

I'd like to point out some of the marvelous elements in the book of Job Chpt 38...I have made some comments in parenthesis( )

11"And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?"

12"Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;"

13"That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?"

(This could be the earliest reference to plate techtonics /plate fault lines and earthquakes?)

14"It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment."

15"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken."

16"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?"

17"Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?"

18"Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all."

19"Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, "

(People of course did not know about photons or space-time/nuclear fusion etc.)

20"That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?"

(They would learn about electrons and electricity one day)

21"Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?"

24"By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?"

(How was light refracted, and how do diurnal winds form)

25"Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;"

(How did the i.e.Grand Canyon and other water/valley cuts form...how does sound travel through the atmosphere)

26"To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;"

27"To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?"

28"Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?"

29"Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?"

(This may reference all the ice of the solar system's Oort clouds that gave the oceans to Earth and other residual water on Mars etc. of the 11 or 12 planets Pluto and Lila as well as several moons anmost comets are just frozen water/ice. Today astrophysicists have theories about how it may have formed)

30"The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."

(This is a facinating possible reference to the near absolute zero temperature of space, and certainly the missing mass of the Universe is a problem for astrophysicists today. yet even the water out there in distant galxies is frozen solid in many instances and hard to locate)

31Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

(Following the interesting references to water in the Oort Cloud or Kuiper Belt areas, the itinerary travels farther out into interstellar space...and on to Arcturus)...

32"Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?"

(Mankind still hasn't the power to set the course around the galaxy of stars significantly, or really even a little bit...maybe one day before the age of the gentiles is fullfilled)

Physics and Metaphysics in Cosmology/Intelligent Design vs. Dumb or No Design

Substantial material facts are considered to be the universe for-itself. One might of course stipulate the word 'material' as an intermediate term, yet that would be wrong.

One can say that 'knowledge' or 'science' is generally about the heterodox interpretation of sense data in increasingly rational parameters of mechanics perhaps.

The idea of what the Universe is like for-itself is of present interest. Not only is there an anthropic principal regarding the parametrical values that physicist find about the bound variables that allow life to exist in this universe, and its improbability, there is perhaps something else that i will call the 'anthropic principle of perception' that is maybe a synthetic update of Kant's concept of categorical limits of human perception and accurate interpretaion of sense data because of the nature of the cognitive faculties in the human condition.

The anthropic principle of perception would be that the Universe is perhaps mass/energy or whatever it's called by people, and yet it's scale and shape or particular attributes are what cognition makes it seem to be...such as planets and galaxies. For itself the Universe may be quite something else. All those spatial dimentions may be united in a hyper-time that isn't relativistic, the superposition of quantum particles from all possible worldlines may simply be an illusory perceptable phenomenality by humans in'the'universe through scientific theory because they fit the 'holographic' nature of the Universe fully. There may be no space for-itself or time, and the nature of things such as gravity may be developments of long human sense experience that seem very meaningful yet aren't primary or essential fundamental building blocks of the Universe or pluralverse.

In a sense science must rely on mathematical metaphysics in order to try to understand the true nature of the universe through theories that can fit observations better and better, yet they do have that absolute limitation of being surpassabel by 'greater' or meta physics.

The anthropic perception principle means that the window of space-time that people experience in may be limited or filtered to such an extent that absolute empirical knowledge of the Universe or pluralverse isn't practical, and that it's grounding in God, and the kingdom of God being within ultimately, is a matter of faith.

Recently astronomers observed probable galaxies with many old stars from inflaton plus 800 million years upsetting the entire context of missing dark matter and energy in the Universe. Much shaky ground and facinating possibilities exist out there. The 'Dark Era' of the Universe before star and galaxy formation wasn't, in theory, so many hundreds of million years before.

Davies discussed the realty or non-reality debate about math in some detail...some believe math exists a priori in a Platonic sense, other's that they are entirely unreal, abstract systems that ultimately have no 'real' existence. The problem arise how math can cross the 'gulf of solipsim', as well as the principle of anthropic perception' to apply in a meaningful way and relate or transplate abstract relations of nature to human minds and subjective existential criterion.

It is a paradox that Platonic 'realism' is the most ideal of all philosophical systems, in which even numbers and math systems have an existence in a realm of forms of some surrealist, metaphysical character.
Actual physical force fields, and the accuracy and inaccuracy of math modeling of them seems of a philosophically dubious nature.

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fitelson/140A/realism.pdf#search='platonic%20realism%20of%20math'

Intelligent Design is a valid existential proposition to explain the existence of the Universe. Some of course give the phrase a bound meaning in order to specificly refute that as a straw man argument as-it-were.

One should not confuse cosmological theories with intelligent design as a valid existential option.The Universe, whatever it is, does seem to exist, and human experience does happen, and the question of if that experience and phenomenality is in the most absolute sense a consequence of an intelligent designer is always a valid consideration even if one a priori rejects it.

I have actually written a small book on this subject named 'Creation and Cosmos; The Literal Values of Genesis' in which I compiled many of these ideas about intelligent design and cosmology.

One might read Paul Davies book 'The Mind of God' published in 1989 and get some of the mathematical-physicist's point of view on the high ground of an intelligent designer and the modern cosmological theories. Dr. Davies won a Templeton Prize.

It is good not to get to mired down in incomplete and straw men arguement criteria on the issue of intelligent design versus whatever...evolution in some cases. Many of the arguments simply are invalid or don't hold water, are not relevant or determinative.

I gave Peter's value that a day to God is as a thousand years, for example, and calculated the creation of Adam on that basis, and got about 2.4 billion years past. Evolutionary Archeo-Biologists place the rise of Eukaryotic life right about then...coincidence?

There was a mathematician named Cantor that developed the concept of absolute sets, and he concluded that it is not possible for an absolute set of all sets to include itself within that set with validity. That limitation is applicable to any cosmological theory too one would think, and the empirically unprovable nature of God that some people claim is a reason for disbelief is not of a fundamentally different character. That is, an ultimate or absolutely valid cosmology cannot be proven either because it will always be subject to a meta-physics.

God is non-contingent being and not subject to the space-time matter of His creation. One will need to accept that on faith.

Use of Controversial Theories to Politically Eclipse Truth

"History is Philosophy teaching by examples."--Thucydides

This is a complex subject yet common in the history of propaganda, ad hominem and straw man argument techniques used to win political points presenteed to the masses. I won't try to document or writea thesis here, yet will present some chat that encounters elements of the subject.

As a general prologue I should say that I believe that in the United Statesthere is no real liberalism or conservativism remaining in a healthy sense, but instead the classical liberalism that regarded the values of individual human civil, equal rights has been displaced by two brands of transnational neo-corporatists of the left and right, with conservatives also fleeing into the neo-corporatist embrace of transnationalism...

I appreciate your reply to the points, yet I'd hoped for more critical analysis and not polemics.

'The science is sound'. –Mr.X

Are you sure Mr. X? These are theories of Li Hui. Are you then a supporter of Li Hui's racial theories?

quote from 'UglyChinese.org below' "Doctorate Li Hui from Fudan University of China had analyzed the DNA of Asians to derive a conclusion that the ancestors of Mongoloid Asians possessed a distinctive Mark M89 by the time they arrived in Southeast Asia"

http://www.uglychinese.org/uygur.htm ...

"About 30,000 years ago, from the launching pad of Southeast Asia, the early Mongoloids went through a genetic mutation to Marker M122."

"In the timeframe of about 10,000 years and developing a genetic mutation to marker M134, this branch of people who went direct north would penetrate the snowy Hengduan Mountains of Tibetan-Qinghai Plateau to arrive at the area next to the Yellow River bends."..."those who went to the east with a new genetic marker M117, i.e., ancestors of modern Han Chinese"

"The second branch of early Mongoloids, about 10,000 years ago, entered China's southeastern coastline with genetic marker M119."

"The use of "science" to "prove" racial fantasies originated in the good ole USA”—Mr. X

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/english/49.html

I am not certain at all that I'd agree with your premise that scientific racism was invented in the United States. Europe and the nazi's were not slackers at that effort, and beside racism is a universal human practice in or out of science that requires good faith to overcome.

Nazi socialism that was actually neo-corporatism is something like the encroaching global neo-corporatism of today minus the racial theories (see Mussolini on corporatism). The Nazi's actually had 'classless' cruise boats to ply the fiords of Norway in the 1930's to give the workers pleasure and relief for the tough road ahead..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KdF_Ship_Wilhelm_Gustloff

On the point about association of Intelligent Design with racism and bigotry, I would say that your preference for dumb design or cephalic idiot non-design is a more subtle bigotry hiding behind offensive accusatory language.

Rereading Brian Greene's book 'The Fabric of the Cosmos' (2004) the points about the historical progress of scientific cosmological theory from Newton to Einstein have emerged as interesting presently...

Newton, a devout Christian believed in Intelligent Design of course, and studied nature with an insight that the Universe has a background reference frame of space in which cosmic mechanics occur under the influence of gravity. Newton I think believed in a steady state Universe after the creation.

For two hundred years Newton's theory dominated science, then Maxwell researching light and electromagnetism quantified observations of those forces about 1880 and added them to Newton's theory of gravity in the calculus Newton invented.

By 1903 Einstein realized that something didn't add up in the light and electromagnetism parameters within Newton's space paradigm, and in 1905 he invented the special theory of relativity to make space-time a unified 'substance' in which light speed and it's characteristic could be explained. later came the general theory of relativity and by several other quantum mechanics.

Intelligent Design is the ongoing scientific and philosophical research into the idea that the entire Universe was created by God. Christians and other monotheists have a faith advantage in starting their researches with the correct parameter, whereas with Cantor's premise of the impossibility of an absolute set that is a cosmology inclusive of itself within it.