Pay gap of U.S. jobs lost/created $ 7,000

The Electoral cycle for 2006 and 2008 may be a long, slow drain from a democratic point of view, the Democrats under President Clinton of course lost control of congress for the first time in decades when the President's maladroit scheduling of legislation with an agenda turned toward socialism, gun control, mandatory health care for the prosperous (only the poor need federal assistance with that) and homosexuality alienated the nation-the Dean/Pelosi era Democratic Party seems to be doing more of the same with a lose-lose selection of events to discuss in the run-up to 2006...namely choosing to be Cassandra's on the Iraq nation-building phenomenon. Instead the Democrats could choose a full platter of win-win issues related to national economics, the environment, security, health care for the poor, non-fossil fuel alternative energy and transport infrastructure, the national debt, federal budget deficit and so forth.

To discuss those issues that would have a positive benefit on all American citizens during the next year is an area in which the Democratic Party can be the stuffing’s out of the Republican Party's mismanagement of the economy since the end of the cold war. The Republic Part's policy since 1994 has been like that of the Soviet Union after world war two that relocated economic production resources from Eastern Europe to Russia. In a similar way the Republican Party has relocated American industry to India and China. Soon Detroit will handle 'financial services' while India and China produces the cars and OPEC the oil for their fuel. The Democratic Party should have a will to actual change these areas toward a positive sum strategy for the nation while even Mexico may surpass the U.S. in auto production one day.

Since the 1980's America has been flooded by M.B.A.'s that want to increase 'production' while cutting costs and employee benefits. While the M.B.A. class rises in income annually the real wages of working Americans decline or stagnate, even as low-paying jobs are created to replace good jobs outsourced, illegal and legal aliens that work cheaper than Americans are imported to subvert wage labor phenomenon, and M.B.A.'s crow about increasing American production 'efficiency' or output by cutting quality jobs and increasing income for the top ten percent of Americans as their taxes are shamelessly cut by the President. Unfortunately the Democratic leadership devotes their time rather stupidly to the unwinnable issue of the Iraq nation building effort, and ignores the vital economic issues as the flip side of a management-labor coin without an opposition or alternative concept beyond or without traditional neo-socialism.

The pay difference between U.S. jobs created and U.S. jobs lost, outsourced or terminated is about $7,000

http://www.usmayors.org/72ndAnnualMeeting/MetroEconomiesReport_062804.pdf#search='u.s.%20jobs%20lost%20november%202005'

In the last five years about 3.5 million manufacturing jobs have been lost in the U.S.A., and the productivity sector of the American economy is in decline, while non-tradable jobs or those that cannot be outsourced are being filled increasingly by illegal aliens and first generation Americans inheriting that opportunity. Does the gross transfer of production to India China and elsewhere while flooding the nation with more illegal aliens than jobs created every year create a long run national security threat? The past and present administration did not evidently think so, as they each have made the U.S.A more reliant on offshore sources of technology and productivity and have perhaps created more new jobs overseas than in the United States. Patriotism seems to be obsolete for those leaders, except as it can be sold for election purposes, marketing or narrow personal or corporate advantage.

To retain the principles of Adam Smith and the best policies of capitalism it must be understood that democracy does not rely on capitalism to determine the good of the body politic, instead capitalism must be, as Smith intended, a servant of the public political will. While capitalism can be a natural selection for good production, politics expressing the best interests of a people must needs retain sober criteria for it's natural security interests including the environment, energy independence, political independence leading corporate competition to serve the public interest rather than dictate it as in the political philosophy of corporatism.

With international corporations investing overseas and ruthlessly outsourcing all possible quality jobs to compete with lower offshore labor costs, Occam's Razor would indicate that even government stimulated creation of new technologies and industries will quickly result in those jobs being transferred overseas too. The reasonable approach is to stimulate with incentives and legislation creation of non-tradable technologies and infrastructure that also create international competition advantages. Coast to coast electro-magnetic tunnels to send cargo to major distribution areas at 1000 M.P.H. could be a start, and home-power with fuel cell interties should replace fossil fuels and internal combustion engines. Congress should pass a law to allow state and local law officials to enforce immigration laws pertaining to legal residence or visitor status in the U.S.A. allowing hundreds of thousands of law officers an opportunity to arrest and ship illegals to federal holding cells before repatriation, instead of the pitifully inadequate few the administration has suggested simultaneously seeking to legalize millions of 'guest' workers to peonize the North American workforce farther. There are far better approaches for American and Mexican workers to improve hourly wages, job quality and competition with China and India.

Democracy should have politicians that seek to increase the national advantage while keeping and building peace abroad. Plain blind corporatism seeks just a bottom line of profit and hasn't an interest in the commons. It may support and build atheist or socialist/corporatist infrastructure globally, destroy a healthy environmental habitat for the planet and exploit workers and environment abroad in China and India etc using those financial levers to run amuck in the U.S.A. too.

With the national media owned by transnational firms in general it isn't obvious that the public will elect politicians that seek after the nation's interest in the near future.

1) U.S. mortgages are resold to an international, global investment agency with 11 trillion dollars in assets-this doesn’t increase U.S. sovereignty at all.

2) National Debt $8,126,391,197,287.16

http://www.uwsa.com/uwsa-usdebt.html

3) Taxpayer payments to Communist China annually as interest on the national debt

http://www.house.gov/tanner/press108-oped101803.htm

http://www.urban.org/publications/1000618.html

4) U.S. industry relocating auto production to India, China, and Mexico

5) U.S. Education losing ground to India, China, Europe and elsewhere in graduation of PhD’s in science, interdisciplinary and math.

6) Fossil fuels imports from abroad dump billions and billions to nations with some sympathy toward international anti-American terrorist organizations.

http://www.solcomhouse.com/usenergy.htm

7) Real wages in U.S. compared in 1955, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995, 2005...no real gain (or minimal at best for workers)

8) Increasing world demand for oil/autos and population incomensurate with democratization of world personal vehicle ratio at current modal trend. Competition for fossil fuels will increase environmental destruction, residual world pollution of waterways, wars for resources and social inequality between top 2 billion and bottom 8 billion over the next 50 years (as world population approaches 10 billion souls). Fuel-cell elctric vehicles, zoning of cicular lots with interlot green spaces on borders, no-net loss of biota on housing, government policy favoring green habitat zoning technology and mass transport infratructures that allow individual use (such as elctromagnetic personal guidepaths through green 'wildernesses') should be favored to develop alternate to continuing global health habitat destruction.

http://www.iags.org/china.htm

Alex Rodriguz; star third baseman of the baseball playing New York Yankess signed a quarter billion dollar contract to play that sport a few years ago, yet isn't certain of what nation to play for in a world baseball championship series giving the choice of the U.S.A. or an island nation in the Caribbean which he is also a citizen of. Dual citizenship or non-citizenship by the 12-15 million illegal aliens, immigrant aliens and their offspring will continue to increase Americans with the trouble of split loyalties, as well as potential secutity problems such as Vice-President Cheyney's Marine Guard espionage agent for the Philippines had this year (2005). With global cell phones at cheap rate and the internet so many new Americans are never well and truly socialized here, and are instead trained to rave and follow their trans-national CEO leaders in some cases in subverting traditional national interest prioritization. The reliance on deficit producing fossil fuels and autos instead of a federal prioritization of alternate fuel and transport structures with radicalaltertiy is an example of that. The rate at which illegal aliens enter the U.S. will not be reduced much while the transnationalists are continuing to reduce this nation's comparative advantage that shoul be maintained with economic leadership in healthy environmental alternatives to traditional industrial and living accreated technique.

A Universal Ball of String?

Einstein's general theory of relativity and quantum mechanics each failed to avoid absurd math infinities in their calculations at either the very small or very large level of the universe respectively, it has been written. String theory and M-Theory have worked to move the infinities into other dimensions, creating more realms to put math paradigms to explain the problematical. Is that valid?

Scientific theories function beyond a realm of pure logic and are united with testable hypotheses and verification in the 'real' world. Unfortunately that means that reason will always perhaps be partnered with the unreasonable and inanimate matter/energy/monads of the given 'material' universe of which human beings are a part in that 'unified' field continuum.

Some scientists are moving away from field theories. Einstein is reported to have said on the last day of his life that he would not be surprised if the entire field theory approach to cosmology was incorrect (or perhaps superficial in the way that Newton's Theory was 'superficial' in relation to the general theory.Plans do exist to test elements of string and extra 4 dimensional theories, specifically with a search for gravity working in an extra dimension at near or less than the Planck length, in which it would diminish at the cube root instead of the square root at short distance, and would be more powerful...that or perhaps a universe with fewer dimensions (just 2 of space and one of time) could account for inconsistencies with the arrangement of mass and energy in space.

It is believed that with Higgs Field inflation the early universe expanded at superluminal speed (faster than light) for 10-35 second expanding orders of magnitude. That law violation is needed to make the math add up too.One will always have difficulty in making a valid cosmology theory get beyond Cantor's set postulate that a universal set cannot include itself in the set and be valid. One must rely on the Spirit instead, and trust God no matter what way time was set to run, or to become put together as an aggregate reflected in the present appearance of the cosmos.

Higgs Field/Inflaton/Politics

"A hidden connection is stronger than an obvious one."--Heraclitus

Relativity is used to extrapolate back toward the beginning of a theoretical time near zero, yet relativity’s math is said to break down into meaningless infinities at that point. Quantum mechanic's math also is said to break down into infinities. Thus superstring theory and M-Theory have sought to unify quantum mechanics and relativity and in order to do so have added several extra dimensions to let the math work out without infinities.

The big bang is replaced with an inflaton that creates space and time together, and it must expand at radically superluminal speeds in the beginning. One theory posits a very small, stable Higgs field (named for Peter Higgs) that becomes unstable because of quantum uncertainty and it's initial pre-inflaton state is seen today in the location of matter such as galaxies in the universe. Other theories have branes of even zero dimension colliding to create a field expansion.

Basic forces of nature logically should reduce to one field in theory, yet the form and allocation of forms of that field in however many dimensions, and what dimensions are for-themselves are good questions. Basic philosophical questions are raised about monism and pluralism of course, although physicists and astronomers must test and theorize data to discover answers to theories.

Time is simply the motion of mass in the dimensions for-itself, and it's nature of duration apart from moving mass is sort of like asking what space is for-itself without mass. Logically one wonders if mass or string vibrations in whatever form or protocol don't just comprise dimensions and time as well, and one gets to the question of why mass and energy in whatever observational, perceptible and real for-itself form have any existence in forms apart from the initial undifferentiated oneness.

Some people are unthinking enough to be unable to consider the possibility of an intelligent designer of all this existential phenomena, yet the idea that a designer must have some necessary existence within the created phenomena is absurd in-itself. There may be different questions though on that issue; one-is a designer necessary for the existence of space-time/mass/motion for itself and two-is a designer necessary for the relations of the mass motion for itself.

One may consider the state of the U.S. economic and energy policies to underscore the point that an intelligent designer is not necessary for complex existent structures that sort of compile and creak and groan with travail and suffering perhaps, yet would be improved with more intellect and altruism although one could argue about what 'improvement' means in that context. For that I should say that those desiring improvement know what that is.

http://superstringtheory.com/cosmo/index.html

A paper on pre-heating a Universe "Nonequilibrium dynamics: Preheating in the SU(2) Higgs model" http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=530265

Some of these physics paradigms done with good math are based on extrapolations from observations about thermodynmics...it could be all quite soteriologically inadequate ultimately skeptics should be forewarned.

---

The meek shall inherit the Earth seems an already proven principle when one considers that one of the ‘survivors’ was a probable worm that became the chordate forerunner of all invertebrates (Pikaia) and that a rat-like mammal that is the probable common ancestor of mammals named Purgatorius survived through the mass extinction of 65 billion years ago that killed off T-Rex and most of the dinosaurs. (Ref. pages 43 and 153 of ‘Evolutionary Catastrophes’).

U.S.A. Today Rag Supports Dumb Random Cosmology

The Dover Pennsylvania election recall of eight school board members that supported a philosophical approach to cosmology that would permit an intelligent design theory as well as a Dumb Random Theory extrapolated from biological evolution theory at least served to defilade the weekend editorial opinion of U.S.A. Today…a major American newspaper, as biased in support of godless atheism.

The reason’s for that Gannet newspaper’s pro-choice sycophancy of exclusive atheist evolutionist cosmology voiced the belief that for a century anti-evolutionism has sought to ‘water down evolution’ theory as if it were a fine Scotch whiskey that ‘creationists’ were seeking to slip a finger or two of H2o in each glass at the bar of public education, yet that isn’t so.
The Templeton Prize winner Paul Davies wrote a fine book on modern cosmological physics named ‘The Mind of God: The Scientific Basis of a Rational World’ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671797182/104-2712931-9907145?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance in 1989 that complete unbelievers such as the editors of U.S.A. should stop to read in order to get beyond the Scopes era mindset. It is disturbing when the media ‘intelligentsia’ that communicates ideas to the masses inherits plain philosophical ignorance and refuses to update its thinking from the era of Clarence Darrow and B. Jennings.

At the very least U.S.A. Today editors could purchase a copy of my modest 2005 book 'Creation and Cosmos; The Literal Values of Genesis' http://www.lulu.com/content/102872 in review of the interdisciplinary theological/philosophical/physics cosmology criterion that has emerged since the middle of the 20th century and the progress of quantum mechanics, relativity theory, astrophysics that revealed a very strange Universe or Universes.

Intelligent design theory includes the entire paradigm of the Intelligent Design and creation of the Universe in distinction to a dumb or senseless random assembly. The paradigms in which that creation could occur rest not only in what people can observe or theorize about the ‘physical’ universe, but in the order of time, directions and number of dimensions, and purpose of the Universe for itself as it appears to human sense and reasoning capabilities.

Some naïve Corporatists and Communists have sought to limit philosophical understanding in public education to atheist materialism in Darwinian evolution or dialectical materialism. Corporatists of course want to program with the mass media and condition the public to buy their products while communists seek much the same. Pharmaceuticals, entertainment, government and a vast range of social ethical concerns may be more profitable to some mass organizational manipulators with God deleted from their educational possibility. Corporatism and Communism each attack individualism in the desire to enrich organization clumps of thugs when the wine of free enterprise rise of thugs to organizational saturation point.

I have opined that God evolved the universe and that the book of Genesis contains a sketch of some salient features of cosmological assembly written and translated from ancient language and social paradigms, yet the Corporatists and Communists of the present mass market era would not want any of that sort of non-profit philosophy even if it’s the truth.

Gary C Gibson. - 10:53am Nov 12, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

"Intelligent design theory includes the entire paradigm of the Intelligent Design and creation of the Universe in distinction to a dumb or senseless random assembly."

This wasn't intended as a simplistic tautologous proof or begging the premise, it was intended to point out that their is more than the Scopes era ideas in intelligent design theory...including quantum mechanical/relativity unified theory efforts to M-Theory and more that can support various paradigmatic deliberation, and that the opposing field of anti-intelligent design or dumb random design as I've called it is the broad other field basically.

Intelligent design theory is more than one particular theory...it includes a vast number of theories that have in common the salient point that an intelligent design is an integral aspect of the fact of the Universe. The fact that philosophers and reasonable people can consider intelligent design and cosmology for-itself from a variety of points does not invalidate even remotely nor positively assert a finite, definable conclusion to the ongoing research into the causality and nature of the universe.

Some linguistic correspondance theorists may desire to wrap up ion words and neutralize rational philsophical deliberation with misdirected verbal tautology, yet it is meaningful to attempt to consider what the universe is for itself as Paul Davies has done in "The Mind of God; A Scientific Basis for a Rational Universe'

The Flood, the Bird Flu, Freedom of Speech/religion

GaryCGibson - 10:58am Nov 7, 2005 When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/opinion/06judson.html a good sketch on flu viral sex encounters and development of new strains that could attack humans, although the author uses the 'evolution' theme as a prop for evolution theory, which is a redundant way of describing much of what is evident.

If a human with one strain of flu has a close encounter with a human with another strain of flu or is infected some other way, a new strain of flu could develop.

Flu viruses have just 8 genes...so when they have 'sex' and recombine the genes dangerous strains are possible.

The leap from bird flu to human bird flue could also occur through mutation.
President Bush's policies must mutate to become radically leading in environmentalism although he can remain an opponent of homosexual leverings on heterosexual structures rightly, or the President's popularity ratings may decrease more...yet more important is the suffering economic infrastructure and energy independence of the nation.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000DCB5A-9CC7-134E-9CC783414B7F0000

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-birdflu-talks.html

Gary C Gibson. - 05:19pm Nov 7, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

Containment is one of the three primary methods of controlling the possible pandemic of bird flu ahead.

"Mixing it in with other immigration issues is a red herring at best and more likely just plain old deceit."

That statement is completely false and even dangerously misleading.

If anyone reads the Nov 2005 Scientific Article on the flu pandemic problems and gets to the part on containment, there is a computer generated map of the United States that highlight the 30 day course of prolifferation of the flu (a model).
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000DCB5A-9CC7-134E-9CC783414B7F0000

Thirty days is the entire time period available to slow down or contain the flu once a general outbreak begins and before the nation is saturated. The 1917 pandemic of bird flu killed a lot of healthy young people because their good resistance system gives the flu stimulated antibodies of some sort time to build up into a cascade that attacks the lungs making breathing without a ventilator impractical.

http://www.internationalsos.com/members_home/pandemicpreparedness/?CFID=2519086&CFTOKEN=17981704

In the computer model the initial small cluster of H5N1 are scattered equidistantly in small clusters more or less around the nation that increase with network over 30 days to saturation of the nation. It is possible to anticipate that a course of infection would not necessartily follow that isotropic scenario and instead might be lopsided or lumped toward the soft underbelly of the United States radiating outward if the virus is transported here by illegal aliens.

The scenario where the flu crosses over to human to human rapid transmission has numerous possible starting places and times. the point of preparedness is to be prepared for isolating and creating barriers to progress of the disease that killed 50 to 100 million people in 1917-1918.

The virus could crossover in America, Europe, Asia or wherever...it could be the first genetically enhanced mass flu recombinant spliced virus made to infect the world by unethical scientists even. They have already recreated the 1917-1918 virus for experimental purposes. Not being a biologist I don't know how skilled they are at it exactly, but the disease might be a fairly simply virus subject to criminals of science if such exist.

The virus could mutate or different human infecting strains could hybridize into more dangerous lethal versions when infected individuals travel to distant locations and infect others giving the virus' the chance to have 'sex' and recombine their genes like fruits and bars on a one-armed bandit seeking to put up a payout.

The vacine search effort, tracking effort, effort to respond quickly to flu outbreaks with tamaflu and other bio-reinforcement prophylaxis is accompanied by the containment strategies the President has put forward, but with an inadequate plan to halt southern border flu vectors. Bureaucrats believe everything from terrorists to the flu only go via airplanes and airports perhaps, or ships the coast guard can interdict.

Flu virus crossover might occur anywhere, and quick containment and counterattack prophylaxis will be needed.

Following is a url for two modest containment strategies of the bird flu virus for an outbreak in Asia

Center for Infectious Disease Research & Policy
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/aug0305panflu.html quote follows...
"Quarantine was found to increase the effectiveness of other strategies even if only 80% of movement into and out of the zones occurred (90% containment at RO =1.8 when added to geographic targeting of antiviral prophylaxis and similar containment at RO =1.9 when social distancing is also added)".

---

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051107/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_torture


President Bush is in the dark ages on torture policies, and should just say no to torture. Yet because torture is useful for trans-national corporate hegemony in the short run, and the President mainly supports that, the long run harm to the United States of dark ages torture policies or even ambiguous policy is inconsequential to him perhaps.

The President has stayed out of a California Episcopal Church's problems with the IRS that want to remove its tax exempt status for the free speech use the church pastor said in a sermon one day. It's more of the transnational corporate desire too establish a religion of materialism with some CEO as the head of the Church perhaps.

Church Pastor's speech must be free to include abominable government practices and politicians too without concern for what the twitish bureaucrats at the IRS think they should or should not say in the pulpit. The IRS should have a more anthropological exemption paradigm and determine if a church actually has a substantive percent of religious activities to deserve exempt tax status...possibly 30 % of the time. It is hard to imagine Old Testament prophets having much to say that did not include criticism of the nation/Government of Israel for instance.

The government seeks to establish a state religion by censoring pastors in church with the financial gun to the head of 'or else', and alternately in schools in permits use of the Babylonian Earth goddess' name copiously and American children are trained to address some of their elders with the name of the ancient goddess. I refer of course to Fragment four column four of the Atrahasis Epic, which is another version of the Gilgamesh Epic.

The creatress of mankind we call thee the lady of all gods be thy name they went to the house of destiny, igiku (that is) Ea, (and) wise Mama.

The ancient Babylonian goddess 'Mama' is used repeatedly and with religious devotion it is taught to youth. The name of the pagan goddess also goes as 'Mami', and further, to pile on the final assault of state indoctrination in religion, the goddess is also known to have the name 'Mah'!... This while prayer intelligent design is not allowed as a paradigm for public school teaching.

Moving on from that ironic point of history...

The Hebrew and the Summerian/Nipurrian flood story each likely had a common source far prior to 200 bc. That source document or documents have been lost. Perhaps Abraham took the story with him when he left Ur in 2068 BC approximately, and it remained until Genesis was written up from several missing documents (perhaps) about 1000 BC in Jerusalem (perhaps).

I'd like to see an ice age map of Mesopotamia; it historically gets only 6 inches of rain

GaryCGibson - 11:20am Nov 7, 2005 EDT When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

If Mesopotamia gets only 6 inches of rain throughout historical times the flood that was caused by heavy rains primarily, as is written in the ancient Sumerian version of the flood story, is out of character with any abstraction of local events to the world submerging scale of the flood. The world in this sense means the entire are of civilization where the people lived in five pre-flood cities in Mesopotamia.

Weather patterns do change with time, and at the end of the last ice age the Tigris and Euphrates may have had more snow and ice sources, while more rain could have fallen. Alternately did typhoons reach into the Persian Gulf...the sea level was 100 miles inland as late as 6000 bc. I believe.

It is also possible that volcanism cooled the world and created more rain for some time...even a year as happened during the Clinton administration mildly after Mt. Pinatubo erupted with others...I could see the ash in the sky in S.E. Alaska that summer and later.
Elsewhere I wrote about some global catastrophes that created mass extinctions that were theorized to have been caused by mass volcanism such as the Deccan flow or that of Eastern Washington.

Like some continental areas portions of Genesis were written based on several sources reaching back well before 2000 BC. The creation story or paradigmatic structure may be easier to associate with cosmology in contemporary terms than is the flood story.
The flood story seems to have been true many times in a sense, an entirely true in the Mesopotamian context. It remains to add up the ages of the post-diluvian patriarch's life spans were they exceed the natural lot, multiply them by Peter's value of 1000 years per day and see what that is for curiosity’s sake.

The Mountains of Ururatu became the mountains of Armenia, and Mount Nisir was suggested as one place where the ark came to rest.

Page 250 c 'The Story of the Flood' Alexander Heidel "The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels'...

''"The place on which Utnaphishtim's boat came to rest is given in the Gilgamesh epic as Mount Nisir, which signifies the 'Mount of Salvation,' if our reading is correct and if the name is of semitic origin. Such a mountain, or mountain range, is recorded in the annals of King Ashurnasirpal II of Assyria (838-859 BC), according to which it was situated to the south of the lower Zab and is probably identified with Pir Omar Gudrun, having an altitude of about 9000 feet. Berossus names the mountains of the Gordyaeans, or the Kurds, as the landing place of the boat of Xisuthros. These mountains, corresponding to Jebel Judi, where also Syriac and Arabic traditions localize the landing-place, are in the southwestern part of Armenia. The Genesis account is quite indefinite on the point under consideration, stating merely that the ark grounded "on (one of) the mountains of Ararat." The name Ararat is identical with the Assyrian Urartu, which, broadly speaking, embraced the territory of Armenia. In three of the four Old Testament passages where the word Ararat occurs, the Septuagint has simply transliterated it (Gen 8:4, II Kings 19:37, Jer 51:27 {28:27 in the Septuagint]), while in the remaining passage the translators have rendered it 'Armenia'. ''

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/flood08.htm

http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/bible_as_history_w_keller.htm

http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/ntxtarmenia2.htm public domain

Utnaphishtim/illegal Aliens/Bird Flu & Mr. Bush's Lame Duckiness

Gary C Gibson. - 11:59am Nov 5, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

“Be a man .. Defend your ideas resoultely!”

Spell your words resolutely!

One need not waste time rephrasing perfectly good sentences or words that express ideas when they are all right the first time. One must defend one's time investments too, and not waste a lot of time with the vicious nihilist sort of obfuscating thug than can drift into discussions.

The ideas I presented were plain enough for the rationally able, for you Pseud1...more verbiage might be necessary ad nauseum. Perhaps rephrasing in other languages would help you. I only write in American English.

In reading tablet one or two of the tale of Gilgamesh, one can find large section in the 1949 versions where Latin is used in the translation to replace English, perhaps because sensitivities were different then than now, and the subject was sending a courtesan/prostitute out to subvert a tough guy in the field that was to be a novelty for Gilgamesh's test of strength and adventures.

Control of biohazards is a serious technical difficulty with a vast body of data. One need not too wordy to recognize it's serious nature, and to have a clue about the historical efforts to contain it.

In using a particular hypothetical vector transmission scenario you have found an object to bite into as if it were the whole world of possible transmission methods, yet it one considers HIV transmission history it is simple enough to be aware that sexual encounters were the fundamental method of international communicability, and that the infrastructure that made that possible could also bring people with the bird flu. Yet that was one trivial possible method amidst the vast number of ways that a lethal flu might be transmitted abroad and even unto the borders of the United States. As a Brit you seem to feel that border defense against a lethal flu biohazard is futile. Perhaps you're sort of resistance to bio-defense is the sort of dog-headedness that Cornwallis could have used in resisting Revolutionary soldiers in the Anglo-American war.

One doesn't want to be boorish when so much fine data is available on the subject of bird flu on-line...its possible to imagine drunks at a bar looking at specks on their whiskey glasses, or arguing about football drunkenly...yet bio-war or bio-virus with a history of killing millions is a sober subject.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/facts.htm
http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/avianflu/index.html
http://www.emoryhospital.com/press_room/ehc_news/2005/Aug/Containing_Global_Flu_Pandemic.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/aaft-pap072905.php strategies for containing bird flu in S.E. Asia
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/readings/
http://www.biologynews.net/archives.html?page=6

GaryCGibson - 01:14pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT

When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

I was disappointed with Pseud-B silly concluding ad hominem premised with completely false reasoning.

PseudB

He admitted he had not been following 'the argument' then categorically condemns it and assaults all 'rw's'.

His apparent indifference to reasoned argument is what the problem is with the Democratic Party on political issues nowadays, and one of the reasons why they may so occasionally unlikable.

The entire argument about communicability of the flu at pandemic levels is premised on easy human-to-human transmissions. To claim that any particular group of individuals would be de facto immune to transmitting the bird flu without inoculation is false.

Obviously if the U.S.A. ever wants to have any sort of quarantine ability, it would need to include stopping 100,000 illegal aliens that cross the Mexican desert into the U.S.A. each month (approx. or it would be ineffective).

I had made the point several times already, and so has the CDC and other agencies about the difference between direct contacts with infected birds and an upgraded or evolved conveyed by breath method of disease transmission.

PseudB’s desire to have something to attack with is so extreme that he resorts to the most plain dissimulations and obfuscations in order to fabricate and issue. It doesn't help address the issue meaningfully at all, and waits time with the counterproductive need for clarification of raised falsehoods and libels.

GaryCGibson - 01:23pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT
When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

Yet on the Gilgamesh/flood story I'd like to add a few points...

The Creation story is quite different than the flood story although each occurs in Genesis. Many that do not read the Bible or Bible History tend to run them all together within a certain uniform time frame. The more one reads in the area the more death and consistence becomes evinced.

I have discovered 'The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels' by Alexander Heidel c 1946 and 1949. Other books are L.W. King's 'legends of Babylon and Egypt in Relation to Hebrew tradition' c 1918 and A. Poebel's 'Historical Texts' c 1918.

The story of King Gilgamesh-probably an actual historical figure, has been unearthed on several clay text tablets and fragments of tablets dating back before the time of Hammurabi circa 18th century B.C.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/Hammurabi

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM code of Hammurabbi

Gilgamesh's story is best known for the section on tablets 10 and 11 of the flood in which an ancient Utnapishtim is told through a dream or by a mysterious wall to build an ark to ready for an inundating flood that would destroy the people of the world.

Utnaphishtim did what he was told, including loading the 'seed' of every sort of animal onto the ark. Good description of the heavy rains and upwelling of waters are provided. The story is very like that of the redaction by Hebrews in Babylonian captivity more than a thousand years later.

The ark in the more ancient Giliamesh stories is said to travel perhaps 210 miles to rest on Mt. Nipir, and in some of the others to 'the head of the waters' (Tigris and Euphrates).

Gilgamesh journeys to meet the now-immortal Utnaphishtim after a perilous journey up beyond the waters and over the mountains (Lebanon and anti-Lebanon Mountains perhaps) past the scorpions people and the 12 double hours of absolute darkness to reach possibly Sidon where Utnaphishtim's boatman take him on a journey far over what is probably the Mediterranean Sea to the island of Utnaphishtim. Gilgamesh is seeking immortality from Utnaphishtim, but fails the prerequisite of staying awake for 6 days...instead Gilgamesh falls asleep for six days.
The Gilgamesh story has descriptions of the underworld, and of course is much influenced by Mesopotamian settings with river floods and mud. The dead are believed to return to become clay, and they live in the House of dust.

The Bible of course has Adam (brown dirt) created from mud and returning to clay (earth to earth) after mortality sets in.

A lot of things seem to have been happening in the Mesopotamian world 4000 years ago. Cuneiform writing were setting down interesting oral histories of flood stories, and in approx 2068 Avrm or Abraham was given marching orders to leave Mesopotamia and take his warrior retainers and womenfolk/children on a sojourn under the instructions of Truth. I don't want to venture to far into more recent history now, however...

GaryCGibson - 01:42pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

Because Utnaphismtim (hasn't anything to do with a Phish performance at U.T.) was given immortality by Enlil after surviving the flood he'd set to destroy mankind because they made too much noise and were disturbing the neo-deos (deistic evolutionary object speculations) he technically serves as an extended time link to allow the setting back of the time of the occurrence of the flood indefinitely earlier in history. A Redaction or altered version of the flood story made as late as 200 B.C. sets the time of the flood during the reign of a king that lived 64,000 years ago.

The flood story as I said earlier isn't the Creation story. The ancients would describe the whole world as the area their civilization was in, and if it was destroyed, and the ziggurats leveled when the Persian storm surged, the Tigris Euphrates spring flood, and possibly hurricane force rains dumped a 100 or 200 inches of water when weather patterns permitted (possibly) during the Neolithic people would say that the entire Urth was flooded truthfully.

After the flood Noah's sons journeyed to populate the world, yet they found other people out there by inference. Even after the New Orleans H-Kat people traveled all over the nation. What could be more natural than that after a cataclysmic flood destroyed Mesopotamian civilization survivors would go out and stimulate civilization to grow elsewhere such as in the Nile Valley?

GaryCGibson - 02:07pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

"---"I was writing about Utnaphishtim, is he still politically incorrect?

PseudB

Pseudb was writing about Vietnam, and fortunately he only said what followed once.
He still is trying to make an issue out of anything instead of being very rational about pandemics and their ability to travel. He should write a paper on pandemics with lots of urls for easy reference.

He did stipulate that he 'seems' to think that penchants of various sorts including 'political incorrectness' are being 'attacked'. Mexico was given, perhaps, as 'politically incorrect. Maybe that's because it borrows too much from the Mixtec?
Swine flue and other flu’s have been crossing from Asia forever via jet aircraft. In pandemics viruses probably can't be geographically isolated as they might have been in the day of Noah or Utnaphishtim.

Border control, one million new illegal aliens annually and communicable diseases involve real politics instead of 'politically incorrect' terminology. Politically incorrect subjects would be better exemplified by the abhorrence the left would have if some right wing Frenchman claims to be the 'new Charles Martel' and saying I told you so about a second Muslim invasion of the Iberian Peninsula right to the heart of France.

The trouble with the irrational branch of leftists is that they go on and on ad nuseum on the same subjects without getting anywhere as extreme left-wing reactionaries incapable of innovation, invention or creativity.

Personally as a classical liberal I sort the properties of rights and rights of property while realizing that capitalism isn't a substitute for government and that Smith's capitalism can produce the best products at the best prices but not the best ideas, cognition or consciousness including environmental awareness.

The two present NPR leftists are mired in defense of illegal immigration perhaps, believing that trans-nationals want it most in the U.S.A. to lower wages here, or that alternately by sending Mexico's best to the U.S.A. it will cut the heart out of Mexican democracy and economic liberty from domination by the twin dangers of oppression by transnationals and a very rich minority repressing them as 'peons' in addition to the 'politically unpopular' idea that illegal aliens can breath and be infected carriers of flue virus at the same time.

Sunday should be more for writing about Upnaphishtim/Noah and how the flood story fits nicely into the story about how God evolved the world with his swift fell sword of creationism. A brilliant designer, in the inklings of pre-history God let life progress to reach proto-civilization.
It is good that the creation parameters can adjust to water theories humanity can devise to explain the Universe and it's dimensions and history. The way the history of civilization merges into the Bible from the Neolithic and earlier disaster and dispersion of people is interesting.

GaryCGibson - 02:45pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT

Reply---

I am not an embedded independent; much less one sacked out with extreme right wing fems. Those northern blondes with Viking Helmets and plaques of wrath and ambition stayed beyond the range of my humble craft. Once I did row an 8 foot inflatable boat with leaking air chamber 150 miles to the state capital on 32 degree water, and wolves were the main shore mammal in the absence of the welcome yet sometimes dangerous bear.

Yet the promiscuous use of sexually paradigm political nomenclature is for the media, and a way of equating their publicness with private practices. A point classical liberals like is keeping privacy an integral element everyday civil rights.

The subject that prompted the radical left obsessive attack was that of the administration failure to mention what they would do to prevent bird flu from crossing the Mexican border if it arrived there before the U.S. I didn't mention the reverse, but if it developed first in the U.S.A. returning illegal aliens seeking to escape by crossing illegally to Mexico could infect that nation too perhaps causing millions of deaths. A loose promiscuous border allows politically transmitted diseases to proliferate if I may appropriate that metaphor for safe-politics.

The Economist...a made in Britain money rag (its fun to use that term for respected if not mainly heterosexual starring publications sometimes---the broadcast villains are of course live traducers immune from retaliation by mere non-corporate individual internet writers, had an article stating that the 'Imperial Presidency' is coming to an end, and that it's very early for the administration to waddles and quack like a lame duck.

Representative Delay was cited as one of the President's main centurions that criticized opponents to war as 'hand-wringers' if not worriers I'd guess.

The President's inner guard is under attack by a grand jury prosecutor reminiscent of J.F.K., and the President is making lame western hemisphere free trade zone noises in Brazil while the leader of brazil is under investigation for receiving election campaign moneys from Fidel Castro.

With the glory of the war over, and only the anti-terror mop up remaining with all that time-consuming pathos, the President's traditional low-brow, do-nothing, spend the farm approach to politics and borrow from foreigners to prop up an economy that could not go on it's own is less than optimally attractive or Teflon coated.

Fundamentally the President's best strategy to weather the storm of opparty critics for the final three years would be to use the Clinton strategy to accomplish the same survival purpose...accentuate the positive in the environmental issues and act unilaterally to improve protect national forests.

President Bush is of course at the center of the cedar forest as an evil ogre defending the rights of campaign contributors to harvest clear cut and annihilate old growth forests...it isn't likely he will be able to raise independently above the ashes of his last administration and play the environmental card to finish with a reasonably popular record.

The President will instead support trans-national plundering where he can, spend as much as possible, run up the deficit and retire as it nears 10 trillion amidst a broadcast rhetoric of support. A future President may be able to lead to national energy independence through home power energy for cars and lights (fuel cells, wind, solar etc.), lead a new zoning and tax reformation that would support start up high tech and green business in the U.S.A., and optimalize support for green autos without foreign or trans-national fuels and housing units that have no net loss of biota.

President Bush could be remembered by history as a genius in environmentalism if he did even 2/3rds of what I suggested above...politically accomplishing it is the difficulty not imagining. President Bush cannot get beyond the war scenario to move on and let American forces abroad and its allies scale the transition into democracy while he moves on to lead the Green revolution in the U.S.A.

Justice Alito and Public Education/Spending

The Senate's passage of 35 billion dollars in budget cut's indicates a good intention but their prioritization of spending creates minimal return. Allan Greenspan warned again of the problem of the budget deficits.

If Senator Frist has read Robert's rules of order at some point, and learned those of the Senate enough to get on to economic matters, he may notice that inflation has simply been laundered and is the interest on the national debt.

The national debt will have crossed nine trillion and be on the road to ten trillion before W. retires to that barbeque pit east of the Pecos. It means a lot of divestment in future public infrastructure at the least.

Yet government theory is confusing for socialists, debauchers and Republicans. Left is liberal and right is nazi, the only two directions on compasses are east and west, and every other heading is a variation as anyone can easily recognize. There is only east and west, even if they are placed at the poles of the planet.

Where would Justice Alito fit on the bipolar political compass of error as regards education?
Public law requires education until the 8th grade oar age 16, so it’s a good opportunity to brainwash the youth into atheism and statism until they graduate. Most parents can't afford to send their charges to private schools with freedom of choice on the teaching of intelligent design, and thus the nation seems to have got into the public education business with a corrupting statist atheistic agenda force fed on the nation's youth.

Today a 'conservative' would simply expand the public spending to include vouchers for private schools as well as public schools. Would Alito consider that sort of statist socialism constitutionally 'conservative'? Would Justice Alito alternately support a termination of public educational facilities except at voluntary attendance grades, and would he then support a complete withdrawal of public spending on education or support only public spending on vouchers in order that students may choose a private school to attend?

Intelligent Design theory is not just some sort of reconstruction of a Scopes era world was created 20,000 years ago theory with proof that dinosaur fossils were planted by Cecile B Demille while making a film about a flood that overtook New Orleans. Instead, intelligent design theory encompasses a vast range of scientific, philosophic, theological and deistic thought considering cosmology theory, historical, archeological and Biblical research. There must be a place for rational consideration of intelligent design of the cosmos within any meaningful cosmology paradigm in order not to doom rationality a priori.

On Design theory on a human level...what about soft micro-computers that are in a bean bag like configuration, waterproof and easy to toss in a rucksack and take in the field. Of course it should have wi-fi and a pouch to extract a waterproof keyboard and maybe vdt from. The vdt and keyboard should be easy to replace at low cost oif they break or fall into a river and can't float.