Utnaphishtim/illegal Aliens/Bird Flu & Mr. Bush's Lame Duckiness

Gary C Gibson. - 11:59am Nov 5, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

“Be a man .. Defend your ideas resoultely!”

Spell your words resolutely!

One need not waste time rephrasing perfectly good sentences or words that express ideas when they are all right the first time. One must defend one's time investments too, and not waste a lot of time with the vicious nihilist sort of obfuscating thug than can drift into discussions.

The ideas I presented were plain enough for the rationally able, for you Pseud1...more verbiage might be necessary ad nauseum. Perhaps rephrasing in other languages would help you. I only write in American English.

In reading tablet one or two of the tale of Gilgamesh, one can find large section in the 1949 versions where Latin is used in the translation to replace English, perhaps because sensitivities were different then than now, and the subject was sending a courtesan/prostitute out to subvert a tough guy in the field that was to be a novelty for Gilgamesh's test of strength and adventures.

Control of biohazards is a serious technical difficulty with a vast body of data. One need not too wordy to recognize it's serious nature, and to have a clue about the historical efforts to contain it.

In using a particular hypothetical vector transmission scenario you have found an object to bite into as if it were the whole world of possible transmission methods, yet it one considers HIV transmission history it is simple enough to be aware that sexual encounters were the fundamental method of international communicability, and that the infrastructure that made that possible could also bring people with the bird flu. Yet that was one trivial possible method amidst the vast number of ways that a lethal flu might be transmitted abroad and even unto the borders of the United States. As a Brit you seem to feel that border defense against a lethal flu biohazard is futile. Perhaps you're sort of resistance to bio-defense is the sort of dog-headedness that Cornwallis could have used in resisting Revolutionary soldiers in the Anglo-American war.

One doesn't want to be boorish when so much fine data is available on the subject of bird flu on-line...its possible to imagine drunks at a bar looking at specks on their whiskey glasses, or arguing about football drunkenly...yet bio-war or bio-virus with a history of killing millions is a sober subject.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/facts.htm
http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/avianflu/index.html
http://www.emoryhospital.com/press_room/ehc_news/2005/Aug/Containing_Global_Flu_Pandemic.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/aaft-pap072905.php strategies for containing bird flu in S.E. Asia
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/readings/
http://www.biologynews.net/archives.html?page=6

GaryCGibson - 01:14pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT

When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

I was disappointed with Pseud-B silly concluding ad hominem premised with completely false reasoning.

PseudB

He admitted he had not been following 'the argument' then categorically condemns it and assaults all 'rw's'.

His apparent indifference to reasoned argument is what the problem is with the Democratic Party on political issues nowadays, and one of the reasons why they may so occasionally unlikable.

The entire argument about communicability of the flu at pandemic levels is premised on easy human-to-human transmissions. To claim that any particular group of individuals would be de facto immune to transmitting the bird flu without inoculation is false.

Obviously if the U.S.A. ever wants to have any sort of quarantine ability, it would need to include stopping 100,000 illegal aliens that cross the Mexican desert into the U.S.A. each month (approx. or it would be ineffective).

I had made the point several times already, and so has the CDC and other agencies about the difference between direct contacts with infected birds and an upgraded or evolved conveyed by breath method of disease transmission.

PseudB’s desire to have something to attack with is so extreme that he resorts to the most plain dissimulations and obfuscations in order to fabricate and issue. It doesn't help address the issue meaningfully at all, and waits time with the counterproductive need for clarification of raised falsehoods and libels.

GaryCGibson - 01:23pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT
When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

Yet on the Gilgamesh/flood story I'd like to add a few points...

The Creation story is quite different than the flood story although each occurs in Genesis. Many that do not read the Bible or Bible History tend to run them all together within a certain uniform time frame. The more one reads in the area the more death and consistence becomes evinced.

I have discovered 'The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels' by Alexander Heidel c 1946 and 1949. Other books are L.W. King's 'legends of Babylon and Egypt in Relation to Hebrew tradition' c 1918 and A. Poebel's 'Historical Texts' c 1918.

The story of King Gilgamesh-probably an actual historical figure, has been unearthed on several clay text tablets and fragments of tablets dating back before the time of Hammurabi circa 18th century B.C.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/Hammurabi

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM code of Hammurabbi

Gilgamesh's story is best known for the section on tablets 10 and 11 of the flood in which an ancient Utnapishtim is told through a dream or by a mysterious wall to build an ark to ready for an inundating flood that would destroy the people of the world.

Utnaphishtim did what he was told, including loading the 'seed' of every sort of animal onto the ark. Good description of the heavy rains and upwelling of waters are provided. The story is very like that of the redaction by Hebrews in Babylonian captivity more than a thousand years later.

The ark in the more ancient Giliamesh stories is said to travel perhaps 210 miles to rest on Mt. Nipir, and in some of the others to 'the head of the waters' (Tigris and Euphrates).

Gilgamesh journeys to meet the now-immortal Utnaphishtim after a perilous journey up beyond the waters and over the mountains (Lebanon and anti-Lebanon Mountains perhaps) past the scorpions people and the 12 double hours of absolute darkness to reach possibly Sidon where Utnaphishtim's boatman take him on a journey far over what is probably the Mediterranean Sea to the island of Utnaphishtim. Gilgamesh is seeking immortality from Utnaphishtim, but fails the prerequisite of staying awake for 6 days...instead Gilgamesh falls asleep for six days.
The Gilgamesh story has descriptions of the underworld, and of course is much influenced by Mesopotamian settings with river floods and mud. The dead are believed to return to become clay, and they live in the House of dust.

The Bible of course has Adam (brown dirt) created from mud and returning to clay (earth to earth) after mortality sets in.

A lot of things seem to have been happening in the Mesopotamian world 4000 years ago. Cuneiform writing were setting down interesting oral histories of flood stories, and in approx 2068 Avrm or Abraham was given marching orders to leave Mesopotamia and take his warrior retainers and womenfolk/children on a sojourn under the instructions of Truth. I don't want to venture to far into more recent history now, however...

GaryCGibson - 01:42pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

Because Utnaphismtim (hasn't anything to do with a Phish performance at U.T.) was given immortality by Enlil after surviving the flood he'd set to destroy mankind because they made too much noise and were disturbing the neo-deos (deistic evolutionary object speculations) he technically serves as an extended time link to allow the setting back of the time of the occurrence of the flood indefinitely earlier in history. A Redaction or altered version of the flood story made as late as 200 B.C. sets the time of the flood during the reign of a king that lived 64,000 years ago.

The flood story as I said earlier isn't the Creation story. The ancients would describe the whole world as the area their civilization was in, and if it was destroyed, and the ziggurats leveled when the Persian storm surged, the Tigris Euphrates spring flood, and possibly hurricane force rains dumped a 100 or 200 inches of water when weather patterns permitted (possibly) during the Neolithic people would say that the entire Urth was flooded truthfully.

After the flood Noah's sons journeyed to populate the world, yet they found other people out there by inference. Even after the New Orleans H-Kat people traveled all over the nation. What could be more natural than that after a cataclysmic flood destroyed Mesopotamian civilization survivors would go out and stimulate civilization to grow elsewhere such as in the Nile Valley?

GaryCGibson - 02:07pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT When a materialist culture overcomes natural boundaries, it also destroys moral boundaries without an indwelling Spirit of God.

"---"I was writing about Utnaphishtim, is he still politically incorrect?

PseudB

Pseudb was writing about Vietnam, and fortunately he only said what followed once.
He still is trying to make an issue out of anything instead of being very rational about pandemics and their ability to travel. He should write a paper on pandemics with lots of urls for easy reference.

He did stipulate that he 'seems' to think that penchants of various sorts including 'political incorrectness' are being 'attacked'. Mexico was given, perhaps, as 'politically incorrect. Maybe that's because it borrows too much from the Mixtec?
Swine flue and other flu’s have been crossing from Asia forever via jet aircraft. In pandemics viruses probably can't be geographically isolated as they might have been in the day of Noah or Utnaphishtim.

Border control, one million new illegal aliens annually and communicable diseases involve real politics instead of 'politically incorrect' terminology. Politically incorrect subjects would be better exemplified by the abhorrence the left would have if some right wing Frenchman claims to be the 'new Charles Martel' and saying I told you so about a second Muslim invasion of the Iberian Peninsula right to the heart of France.

The trouble with the irrational branch of leftists is that they go on and on ad nuseum on the same subjects without getting anywhere as extreme left-wing reactionaries incapable of innovation, invention or creativity.

Personally as a classical liberal I sort the properties of rights and rights of property while realizing that capitalism isn't a substitute for government and that Smith's capitalism can produce the best products at the best prices but not the best ideas, cognition or consciousness including environmental awareness.

The two present NPR leftists are mired in defense of illegal immigration perhaps, believing that trans-nationals want it most in the U.S.A. to lower wages here, or that alternately by sending Mexico's best to the U.S.A. it will cut the heart out of Mexican democracy and economic liberty from domination by the twin dangers of oppression by transnationals and a very rich minority repressing them as 'peons' in addition to the 'politically unpopular' idea that illegal aliens can breath and be infected carriers of flue virus at the same time.

Sunday should be more for writing about Upnaphishtim/Noah and how the flood story fits nicely into the story about how God evolved the world with his swift fell sword of creationism. A brilliant designer, in the inklings of pre-history God let life progress to reach proto-civilization.
It is good that the creation parameters can adjust to water theories humanity can devise to explain the Universe and it's dimensions and history. The way the history of civilization merges into the Bible from the Neolithic and earlier disaster and dispersion of people is interesting.

GaryCGibson - 02:45pm Nov 6, 2005 EDT

Reply---

I am not an embedded independent; much less one sacked out with extreme right wing fems. Those northern blondes with Viking Helmets and plaques of wrath and ambition stayed beyond the range of my humble craft. Once I did row an 8 foot inflatable boat with leaking air chamber 150 miles to the state capital on 32 degree water, and wolves were the main shore mammal in the absence of the welcome yet sometimes dangerous bear.

Yet the promiscuous use of sexually paradigm political nomenclature is for the media, and a way of equating their publicness with private practices. A point classical liberals like is keeping privacy an integral element everyday civil rights.

The subject that prompted the radical left obsessive attack was that of the administration failure to mention what they would do to prevent bird flu from crossing the Mexican border if it arrived there before the U.S. I didn't mention the reverse, but if it developed first in the U.S.A. returning illegal aliens seeking to escape by crossing illegally to Mexico could infect that nation too perhaps causing millions of deaths. A loose promiscuous border allows politically transmitted diseases to proliferate if I may appropriate that metaphor for safe-politics.

The Economist...a made in Britain money rag (its fun to use that term for respected if not mainly heterosexual starring publications sometimes---the broadcast villains are of course live traducers immune from retaliation by mere non-corporate individual internet writers, had an article stating that the 'Imperial Presidency' is coming to an end, and that it's very early for the administration to waddles and quack like a lame duck.

Representative Delay was cited as one of the President's main centurions that criticized opponents to war as 'hand-wringers' if not worriers I'd guess.

The President's inner guard is under attack by a grand jury prosecutor reminiscent of J.F.K., and the President is making lame western hemisphere free trade zone noises in Brazil while the leader of brazil is under investigation for receiving election campaign moneys from Fidel Castro.

With the glory of the war over, and only the anti-terror mop up remaining with all that time-consuming pathos, the President's traditional low-brow, do-nothing, spend the farm approach to politics and borrow from foreigners to prop up an economy that could not go on it's own is less than optimally attractive or Teflon coated.

Fundamentally the President's best strategy to weather the storm of opparty critics for the final three years would be to use the Clinton strategy to accomplish the same survival purpose...accentuate the positive in the environmental issues and act unilaterally to improve protect national forests.

President Bush is of course at the center of the cedar forest as an evil ogre defending the rights of campaign contributors to harvest clear cut and annihilate old growth forests...it isn't likely he will be able to raise independently above the ashes of his last administration and play the environmental card to finish with a reasonably popular record.

The President will instead support trans-national plundering where he can, spend as much as possible, run up the deficit and retire as it nears 10 trillion amidst a broadcast rhetoric of support. A future President may be able to lead to national energy independence through home power energy for cars and lights (fuel cells, wind, solar etc.), lead a new zoning and tax reformation that would support start up high tech and green business in the U.S.A., and optimalize support for green autos without foreign or trans-national fuels and housing units that have no net loss of biota.

President Bush could be remembered by history as a genius in environmentalism if he did even 2/3rds of what I suggested above...politically accomplishing it is the difficulty not imagining. President Bush cannot get beyond the war scenario to move on and let American forces abroad and its allies scale the transition into democracy while he moves on to lead the Green revolution in the U.S.A.

Justice Alito and Public Education/Spending

The Senate's passage of 35 billion dollars in budget cut's indicates a good intention but their prioritization of spending creates minimal return. Allan Greenspan warned again of the problem of the budget deficits.

If Senator Frist has read Robert's rules of order at some point, and learned those of the Senate enough to get on to economic matters, he may notice that inflation has simply been laundered and is the interest on the national debt.

The national debt will have crossed nine trillion and be on the road to ten trillion before W. retires to that barbeque pit east of the Pecos. It means a lot of divestment in future public infrastructure at the least.

Yet government theory is confusing for socialists, debauchers and Republicans. Left is liberal and right is nazi, the only two directions on compasses are east and west, and every other heading is a variation as anyone can easily recognize. There is only east and west, even if they are placed at the poles of the planet.

Where would Justice Alito fit on the bipolar political compass of error as regards education?
Public law requires education until the 8th grade oar age 16, so it’s a good opportunity to brainwash the youth into atheism and statism until they graduate. Most parents can't afford to send their charges to private schools with freedom of choice on the teaching of intelligent design, and thus the nation seems to have got into the public education business with a corrupting statist atheistic agenda force fed on the nation's youth.

Today a 'conservative' would simply expand the public spending to include vouchers for private schools as well as public schools. Would Alito consider that sort of statist socialism constitutionally 'conservative'? Would Justice Alito alternately support a termination of public educational facilities except at voluntary attendance grades, and would he then support a complete withdrawal of public spending on education or support only public spending on vouchers in order that students may choose a private school to attend?

Intelligent Design theory is not just some sort of reconstruction of a Scopes era world was created 20,000 years ago theory with proof that dinosaur fossils were planted by Cecile B Demille while making a film about a flood that overtook New Orleans. Instead, intelligent design theory encompasses a vast range of scientific, philosophic, theological and deistic thought considering cosmology theory, historical, archeological and Biblical research. There must be a place for rational consideration of intelligent design of the cosmos within any meaningful cosmology paradigm in order not to doom rationality a priori.

On Design theory on a human level...what about soft micro-computers that are in a bean bag like configuration, waterproof and easy to toss in a rucksack and take in the field. Of course it should have wi-fi and a pouch to extract a waterproof keyboard and maybe vdt from. The vdt and keyboard should be easy to replace at low cost oif they break or fall into a river and can't float.

Bird Flu and the Borders/Quarantine plans for WC Scenario?

Asian social and Economics Impact of Avian Flu Could be Large
N.O.A.A. photo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051103/ap_on_bi_ge/bird_flu_economic_impact_4

GaryCGibson - 06:26pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

What will the President do if the chicken flu shows up in Europe or elsewhere in human beings; immediately quarantine flights from those countries and wait to see if travelers develop signs of the flu before letting them out of sick bay?

If the flu becomes transmitted to human beings, will the President actually make a serious effort to prevent illegal aliens from bringing the flue into the U.S. from Mexico-where it could be brought to Nuevo Laredo, Ensenada or wherever by traveling sexcationers from Europe visiting brothels?

If chicken flu can terminate the lives of a million Americans-is it worth cutting off the flow of illegal alien migrant workers to the Gulf Coast, or should New Orleans be renamed Nuevo Isabella to reflect the pre-Orleanist/De Iberville state of affairs?

On the other subject, what did the President know, and when did he know it? People are now asking the question about did the President have faulty intelligence when he went to battle with the Iraqis in 2003 that previously ridiculed the Presidents failure to select the right pronunciation of nation's names. The President that won't divulge all his academic transcripts for some reason is supposed to have the highest efficiency at though processing intelligence data...Saddam Hussein did order an assassination attempt on his Dad didn't he?

President Bush was not my choice for a second term nor was Senator Kerry a good choice after it was pointed out that he'd claim to be a war criminal or sort of one perhaps with jocularity.

The Democrats should talk about meaningful economic business and get off the digressions such as delaying approving a totally qualified SC nominee. Let good Justice O'Conner retire in peace for the Holiday Season to her beloved Arizona homestead for the roasting of pinion nuts and other traditional practices of that region. It was pinion nuts until all those trees started dying off because of global warming perhaps--it's too hot in New Mexico at least.

The democrats should recognize that there are perhaps 30,000 Sunni insurgents in Iraq active right now at bombing American soldiers with improvised devices and that wining about the American presence publicly does probably encourage the insurgency to get headlines.

The post-war insurgency in the remodeled and improved nation of Iraq is another affair than the war issue and it requires new skills and analysis to address politically. In simply being stupid and backward looking the intelligence failure is probably that of the Democratic Party right now.
The left right baloney in America is to some extent anachronistic while each party is stuffing Communist China with wealth and production opportunities to the detriment of the U.S.A. Black participation in U.S. labor unions is down to just 4 percent---they don't wear the union label!

The Wal-Marts cut these huge deals with intermediaries to produce cheap stuff in China putting Americans out of work and then convince Americans they are better off being just consumers. The trans-national neo-corporatist set want to move the Chi communes into a large corporate modality, and the Democrats want to meet the communes halfway with socialism, and the American individual is deleted and considered a leftist by the neo-corporatist organizational flunkies and an extreme right winger by the debauchery and socialism crowd.

While the federal debt is...wait a minute, $ 8, 048,856,092,004.37 and since Sept. 2005 the national debt increased about 3.48 billion per day the congress obsesses with non-economic issues unhappily. Its because they may each be somewhat un-American in being unable to see the forest for the trees. Yet their un-American attitude is what Americans are today... not resourceful enough!

GaryCGibson - 06:52pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

A good conservative these days sig-heils neo-corporatism, and a good leftist seigs or sings the internationale of socialism and statism...each obfuscates classical American liberalism with the dull beady eyes of incomprehension.

American individualism and independent national energy infrastructure need to be reinforced with favorable intentions in honorable legislation meeting constitutional muster. The United States should be considered with practical, objective appraisals from the outside in instead of the inside out. The environment matters!

GaryCGibson - 07:27pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT

These rant dumps (especially UZIL's) aren't helpful.

Plastic Blop, "Roberts Nominated as Next Chief Justice" 2 Nov 2005 6:59 pm

Of course I am not a Bush apologist...as one may infer from the post of which the fiction is a derivative.

I should note that I have limited computer time to reply to the Discussions occupation polemicists right now...

UZIL , "Roberts Nominated as Next Chief Justice" 2 Nov 2005 7:03 pm

UZIL's reading and rationalizing comprehension also seems somewhat off, and perhaps motivated by hate of some sort...only he knows for sure as both of these posters are anonymous or somewhat non-credible.

The avian flue is well known to be in Europe and elsewhere outside China but not yet in the Americas, and the news-reading public are also generally aware that it hasn't crossed over into human yet.

If the bird flue does cross over into humans, and not perhaps as UZIL might suppose by an infected chicken retracing Lindbergh's route to prove that birds are not genetically inferior to jet aircraft, and if the U.S. government takes any measures at all to protect it's people from mega-death by immigration of an infected legal alien or expatriate or vacationer or business person arriving at a U.S. legal entry portal, the effort can well be defeated by illegal alien entry.

That premise isn't racism it's reason. Illegal alien entry can subvert legal entry screening of infected Euros Chinese or even Mexicans.

My question in the original post was to ask if the Bush administration has a priori thrown in the towel on the advanced line of battle against the potential human transmitted version of the bird virus, and in effect surrendered the borders to illegal alien crossing with the bird flu virus potentially to unleash death upon thousands or millions of American citizens?

Its only a question, and I guess some would think that the potential association of prevention of illegal entry into the United States with Mexican nationals could indicate a drift toward racism when the Mexican people should be exempt from the laws of the United States when crossing into America in a more utopian and unbiased political paradigm...but does that premise extend to the need to allow a half million Americans to be bitten by the bird of death (a metaphor)?

Where would the forward line of be against biological war in the administration's best case scenario, and should they also move that line well within U.S. borders in case the vector of infection is a worse agent, but carried by 'Typhoid Pedro'?

I have opposed illegal alien entry into the U.S.A. for years because of the corrupting influence it has upon the American labor wage levels and political integrity. The administration perhaps claims an inability to police the border meaningfully to prevent all illegal entry, and it is thus a weak link in an effort to save the lives of possibly a million or two infected, vulnerable Americans if the disease does become humanly communicable with ease.

The United States has a Canadian and a Mexican border, the coast guard does a fair job against illegal alien boat entry, and airports can be quarantined. Is quarantine an obsolete effort against lethal biological virus? UZIL H seems to believe so, and considers it racist to use complete border security in the event of a world outbreak of the chicken flu; maybe he owns part of a mortuary?

My regrets to Yoda for UZils loose use of his name below.

GaryCGibson - 07:47pm Nov 2, 2005 EDT
"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear."-Hebrews 11:3

"Given this, and using the Bush theory of attacking the uninvolved, the best way (to Gary) of keeping the Flu out of the US is sealing the Mexican border."

-False

Quarantine is one method of preventing a population from being infected...I asked if the Bush administration had given up on that at the borders in the world infection scenario with initial outbreaks abroad?

The reaction to actual outbreaks of Chicken Flu would need to be quick, and the leaky southern border would flank leading edge of biological war containment efforts on the other three fronts mentioned abroad.

Of course the administration doesn't need to immediately implement effective border control before the crisis arises if it ever does. There are many supporters of illegal alien entry into the United States with or without catastrophic infections.

The administration seems to be putting out a less than comprehensive plan if it does have no intention of sanitizing the borders and air ports of entry as well as oceanic ports of entry. The actual methods the administration would put in place would need to exist before the crisis or they would be ineffective. Homeland Security should at least have a contingency plan to use in case it got ten days warning of a global outbreak of a fatality-causing virus.

I might add that the last Homeland Security Director innovated the clever idea of responding to bio or rad attacks with duct tape. Perhaps the present innovator will add an effective countermeasure like that alcohol based gel hand sanitizer guaranteed to kill 99% of known germs.

UZIL--we are talking about potential here, and preparedness. It’s a sort of prophylaxis against disease like an inoculation. Try reading the above post. Incidentally Microsoft Live will be available for software and other development with online storage soon...and it's supposed to be free.

Gary C Gibson. - 09:20am Nov 3, 2005 EDT
God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

It is amazing how the radical left simply disregards content and libels with deranged versions of content made by fictious inspiration I guess.

I wrote about lethal bird flu/chicken flu and such with easily recognizable terminology to those without rough ESL skills. There are no known cases of human-to-human flu contacts through easily communicable means such as breathing or sneezing. Most infections/deaths from are not human-to-human http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/

In the H5N1 outbreak in Hong Kong 1.5 million chickens were killed because they gave the virus to people. There have been other versions since 1997.
CDC quote...
"H5N1, Hong Kong, Special Administrative Region, 1997: Highly pathogenic avian influenza A (H5N1) infections occurred in both poultry and humans. This was the first time an avian influenza A virus transmission directly from birds to humans had been found. During this outbreak, 18 people were hospitalized and six of them died. To control the outbreak, authorities killed about 1.5 million chickens to remove the source of the virus. Scientists determined that the virus spread primarily from birds to humans, though rare person-to-person infection was noted."

These basic parameters are fairly well known. Quarantine measures are another traditional way to prevent communicable disease...one that seems a horrid possibility to UZIL for some reason.

On the subject of protecting all of America's borders against large numbers of infected individuals (some 200,000 cross from Mexico in some months perhaps with a high chance to pass on communicable disease should such develop one day in Mexico) the question was what the administration plans to do about it, if anything. UZIL of course uses ad hominem and straw man attacks on me for bringing the issue up. He also uses misleading viral snippets to try to create a sense of futility in the effort to contain disease pathogens from proliferating within the U.S.A. over international borders.

On the idea of the California Congressman to spend a couple billion to build a snipable fence that could not be completely effective without electrification from solar power collectors, I suggest that instead a cost study/engineering feasibility study and such be done along with environmental impact research to determine the possibility of building a small boat canal along the southern border from the Gulf of Mexico to Phoenix connecting to the Gulf of California or Sea of Cortez and conquistadores would say.

The 1800 mile canal approx. would have many lochs and lagoons, and would be supplied with saltwater pumped in tube siphons between the Gulf of Mexico and Pacific...perhaps extra pipelines could be used to generate electricity with the difference in Sea level between the two oceans on either side of North America. California could get the fence, or the canal could be extended somewhat beyond El Centro California although it could never co over the Mountains to San Diego and the Pacific. Maybe retiring Justice O'Conner could lead the Project to create an American small boat canal and recreational waterway with border security features for the new Port of Phoenix.

CDC quote "H5N2 in Texas – 2004

In February 2004, an outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) A (H5N2) was detected and reported in a flock of 7,000 chickens in south-central Texas. This was the first outbreak of HPAI in the United States in 20 years."

Did the Texas mad cow case involve a Mexican steer? Did this Texas chicken virus involve birds from Chihuahua?

If an outbreak of a human wildfire pathogen develops in Mexico it could be brought here by illegal aliens.

Nominee Alito/Vietnam War-Iraq War Issues/Monolithic Domes and Taxes

Gary C Gibson. - 06:22pm Oct 31, 2005 EDT God ordered Noah to save all endangered species--and more than half of the ship was reserved for animal habitat

It would have better pr with Pricilla Owens as the nominee, yet the President's recalcitrance about appearing to have p& v made his selection logical.

It reminds me of the screenplay synoptic about an aging Montana motorcycle auto jumping champion that becomes set up by a corrupt federal politician from a southern state looking for a fall guy to advance his reelection...the aging jumper/former special forces dude hops and skips the U.S.A. to reach former contra colleagues in Nicaragua that help him return to break up the drug importation financed coup de main.

Actually there aren't many good movies out now, so I made that up.

Sen. Reed backed the loser for the first try to fill justice O’Connor’s seat, and he may lose again by seeking to filibuster the nomination. Since Tip O’Neal left his job as Speaker, the Democratic fortunes have continued a downhill slide...they just can't seem to pick winning issues, and won't save their ammo for battles they have a chance of winning.

The Democrats in Congress definitely should not filibuster and require the Republicans to invoke the nuclear option. Blocking lower court nominees is different than blocking Supreme Court appointments by an elected President and supported by a majority of congress. The Democrats should just sign off on Alito as the Republicans did on the very unconservative Ginsberg nomination, and respecting democracy cut their losses and look to 'next week'.

Democrats since the Clinton era haven't been able to evaluate with accuracy the chances of getting legislation through. They pick issues that are out of season or unfruitful, and hold onto them long past the time they would do any good. It’s rather remarkable how silly the Democratic leadership is sometimes.

Two political parties can be as useless as just one party in conserving the liberal rights of democracy it seems, and the nation may develop a resemblance to the former Soviet Union's statist fake democratic society in time in neo-corporatist or socialist garb.

If President Bush rally was serious about someone with no Judicial experience for the court, he should have just nominated Letterman or Leno, and got them to take crash legal courses to fill in until they could pass the bar in two or three years. Neo-Corporations have no need for real equal protection of laws, sound legal reasoning of a democratic society, or free expression by private citizens on internet blogs when they dissent with neo-corporatist brainwashing, so they might at least have enjoyed the humor of some college graduates, or alternatively, some public defenders that handle a dozen cases a day in D.C. might have understood the challenges the poor experience in a neo-corporatist, semi-statist society better than that highest social milieu of Dallas.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051031/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/vietnam_intelligence

Why the timing on this article? I read a fairly comprehensive report on the problems with the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' a year or two ago. Does this article add much information that wasn't known already. That article alleged that a navy was required to go out and fabricate an icident that never really happened...if I remember correctly.

Certainly the Bush administration falmmed up the wmd issue in order to sell the public on the 2003 war with Iraq so there are parallels with the Gulf of Tonkin Incident...but not many.
Vietnam was a war that was unwinnable if the Southerners wouldn't defend it themselves ultimately with the Laotian border and security problems as they were, while the Iraq conflict to terminate a regime allowing a democide to occur was a just cause, even though it upset 1000 contractors paying billions of kickbacks to Saddam Hussein in the oil for food program and was thus contentious in the U.N.

Gary C Gibson. - 09:00am Nov 1, 2005 EDT

Orde Wingate's mission had not been going 'several years' berfore he perished. It had been only operative several months. He was of course working against the Japanese occupation force with success. Often his specially selected people walked about.

Blogger did discern one point...the Vietnam War was perhaps classifiable as a 'loss', and as history it cannot be reversed in that context except through revisionism, where Arnolf Swarnetnagger defeated the forces at Dien bien Phu led by droids.

The Iraq war of 2003 was as the President declared a bit show-boatishly, a victory. The post war events are in a different nation building process that is already fundamentally successful.
With Soviet military support for the North Vietnamese rebels, and the legal impossibility of invading and occupying the north, stopping the war in the south wasn't likely, especially with the Ho Chin Minh trail of incursion improving in spite of operation igloo.

To 'win' the Vietnam war would hadve required an almost impossible border defense durting the cold war era. The object of the war in the L.B.J. administration was instead to intimidate the communists with shock and awe into quiping...a policy that continued during the Nixon administration as he began the regular withdrawl of American and U.N. forces simultaneously complied.

The Vietnam War was a proxie cold war casualty in the world battle against communism. If the Soviets and Americans had not been protagonists, perhaps Ho Chi Minh would have led the war against colonialism in a different direction.

The Orde Wingate query was simply a test question to demonstrate the sillyness of making substantive or lengthy replies to polemicists that havern't a meaningful historical; contribution to make on a subject such as that...Admiral Nelson and Vietnam Mark associated (what horse pitching inaccuracy)!

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In case anyone missed the new planet discoveries...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_new_planet.html

Gary C Gibson. - 11:47am Nov 1, 2005 EDT

Taxes are sometimes used to encourage or discourage public policy. In Alaska the majority voted to prevent homo marriages, while the Supreme Court of Alaska retaliated by giving full health benefits to state employees homo live-ins. In effect the Alaska Supremes recognized de facto common law homo marriages. Courts can in effect veto public policy expressed by the majority, while taxation can be used to put intention upon public policy.

In Florida hurricane damage that is preventable with a little executive leadership or legislative foresight year after year piles up redistribution of tax dollars so people can buy storm shutters or whatever...new roof, fence, fruit trees, trailer through FEMA and other agencies while homeless people can just sort of marvel at how the haves get more.

Yet the failure of the state government to have adequate ecozoning and building design measures broadly available along with home-power alternate energy sources such as wind, solar and fuel cell generators is a consequence of the neo-corporatist drift of establishment inflexibility that cumulatively stagnates alterity; change is bad for already producing business technology.

When ossification through neo-corporatism becomes too pervasive even extending to broadcast media attack on Internet start-ups and government complicity dumbs down the free market through lack of renewable invention and innovation in technology on the largest scale budget deficits and foreign borrowing to fund a dysfunctional economy ensue.

Sound taxation would tax home energy consumption, and fuel consumption from fossil fuel based sources in order to encourage domestically produced alternate, independent energy generation.

Sunday I had 16 spare points so I advertised my poem 'Three Bolts More' on allpoetry.com for one click. I'd written the poem after watching a lightening storm from a Baptist Church porch during heavy rain in Florida (I was riding a bike). I'd just finished the bulk of painting a non-Baptist Church, unlike the Baptist Church I couldn't finish in West Texas last October because they kept changing the color, the weather got cold, and it wasn't possible for me to charge more (I did not want too). The paint line reached halfway up the wall to the colored glass and the dove/spirit of God. When the Baptist minister was electrocuted in Waco in a Baptismal font yesterday I was surprised-yet it seemed a remarkable coincidence.

Electricity need not be such a strange thing with ongoing power outages from WILMA in Florida...some independent home power should be encouraged.

Square metal buildings in the south that become solar toaster-ovens without vast volumes of centrally produced electricity for air conditioning should be taxed more than monolithic concrete domes with an effective r-value of 80. Even monolithic domes with a cost of just 85 dollars per square foot should have alternate, independent power supply to power low wattage fans to bring in outside air if they are used for storm shelters. With a 100 people in a non-air conditioned hotbox the atmosphere become unbreathable very fast as the oxygen is depleted by all that lung air intake.

Automobiles that run on non-fossil fuels and that don't require any foreign fuel of any sort to operate should be exempt from taxes entirely.

Noah and the Endangered Species Act

If the Cheney/Bush axis of oil had read the book of Genesis with more devotion, perhaps they might have discerned the allocation of ship resources that God let the animals have aboard the ship of refuge for all living things during the flood. God had given Noah the order to save all the endangered species, and Noah followed that order without promulgating an endangered species act.

Plainly it was intended that the Earth have a healthy and ongoing ecosystem into the indefinite future replete with a sustainable environmental infrastructure of which mankind would become guardian. One may thus ask; has the Bush/Cheney administration been a good environmental steward, or have they even accomplished so much as burying the one talent in the ground so that they would not lose it because their master was known to be wroth if his vassals did not turn a profit?

Sin originally meant to miss the mark of an archery target; the Bush administration has sinned in pursuing filthy lucre to the detriment of the environment. It has not accentuated the positive opportunities of eco-engineering and green technological development, and has even cast out the token 'libruhl' to take the fall in its obsessive pursuit of regressive environmental nihilism based infrastructure rotting.

Brian Green noted that Leibniz and Newton pondered the nature of absolute space in pursuit of cosmological physics development. Leibniz was a relativist and Newton an absolutist who believed space had it's own unique content or character regardless of the mass, stars, planets etc in it. Green noted that Galileo had already become aware of the relational nature of speed of objects moving constantly, and that Descartes had noted that it was with acceleration that resistance increased. Newton attributed the resistance of acceleration to the character of space for-itself.

Yet it is quite possible that with the ten or eleven dimensional character of string theoretical or M-Theoretical space, space does not exist at all, and instead the void of space is a comparative or relational attribute given by the anthropic perception principle of implicit features and protocols of mass and perception. Mass may be all that exists, and for-itself in ten dimensions, while as Leibniz speculated, spirit may be the ultimate 'ground' of space or mass.

Insertion of a beach ball made in 2007 Trenton NJ with led readouts, solar powered, and glow in the dark characteristics through a time-machine to Genoa in the 10th century would not have given a clue to the finder about where or how it was made, or what the manufacture plant looked like. God produced the universe human intellect perceives, yet one cannot discern much about the producer from the produced.

The Universe is a product albeit with finely tuned strings and possible dimensions-yet possibly even the dimensions and quantum theory are very primitive attempts to understand the incomprehensible realm of Absolute Spirit. Sin may mean to miss the object of returning to a perfect relationship with the Spiritual producer of the Creation. Spirit produced the Universe, yet the obsessive wish to worship it even if in economic gluttony.

The flood could refer to the one that rent in the Black Sea Basin, or the Mediterranean basin millions of years ago when the blockage at the strait below the hill (gib) alter was overcome by the Atlantic, or even just a Euphrates flood to the mountains of Urartu--or even an extra-dimensional time change...its a matter of faith.

$25 K-Mart Tent Survives Hurricane Wilma

This 25 dollar K-Mart tent survived Hurricane Wilma on the treasure coast of Florida. The highest sustained wind was about 101 mph, and the highest gust might have been 160. In pitching a tent for Hurricane Category 2 or 3 location is everything. The tent should not be underneath trees with large branches, and should be in the midst of protecting foliage such as palmettos.

Florida cities should learn to use folliage to reduce wind damage to flimsy human structures with good eco-architecture.

If riding a bicycle from one location to another during the passage of the eye of the storm, one must be quick about it. Since the worst part of the Hurricane is the 30 or 40 hours of radio talk devoid of entertaining storm music…the pathos, glory, fear, anecdotes and so forth can become stressful compared to the weather phenomena that has nice tonal characteristics an interesting secondary visual phenomena.

I do not recommend hurricane camping for tenters, yet it is possible to endure brief hurricanes without much difficulty evidently.

Gary C Gibson. - 10:01am Oct 27, 2005 EDT (#2584 of 2595)
"History is Philosophy teaching by examples."--Thucydides

It is good that Ms. Miers has joined the set of rejected Supreme Court Justices so that a sound classical American liberal judge can be nominated.

The individual should be a solid supporter of the United States instead of a trans-nationalist flunkie of the Bush zaibatsu. It is interesting that the Bushes have a tendency to nominate unmarried people that are as less conservative than Gloria Steinhem perhaps.

One would hope that the justice restores American individualism to the possible range of interpretations of the constitution. Debauchery and socialism should be considered essentially private issues, and not become subject to ratification and assurance of support by the court as they seek to intrude into public areas.

The broadcast media should be put back in the box of Steven King like Hurricane horror toys that the governor of Florida would need that author's glasses to imagine. The broadcast media should become an internet frequency tool. Democracy in general should be prioritized in the neo-corporatist era. Imagine a 'conservative' tak radio host actively supporting environmentalism and modern environmental technology...ha ha!

The poor Floridians without power now could use some wind generators...while not a contractor I would be available for employment painting or installing air generators by the hour...

http://www.windenergy.com/

Florida...that neo-communist state, has made unlicensed contracting a felony crime and solidly joined Fidel Castro's approach to free enterprise.

Protecting the elderly from contracting fraud could have been accomplished without suberting the heart and foundation of free enterprise that exists in improvisational contract labor. I have done highest quality paint contracting with the customer's materials on my recommendation, and tools in several states...and in none other did an effete ruling class decree honest work a felony offense.

It is there silly anti-eco-zoning regs that allow flimsy arboreal selection to place thousands and millions of badly located, unnaturally selected trees into vulnerable locations...as well as flimsy unwindtunnel tested building designs, flimsy traffic lights, stupid power structures without enough independent home power, public utlity lines subject to windfall, foreign dependent fossil fuel power internal combustion engines instead of fuel cell and battery electric combination power plant etc...

The felony should be in the complacent, pampered, corrupt,blimp decadent prosperous jackgucci booted thugs that never think for-themselves and inertial roll on with conformity being the greates virtue. What ever happened to American ingenuity?...Outsourced to China obviously.

Points of Interest in Job 38

I'd like to point out some of the marvelous elements in the book of Job Chpt 38...I have made some comments in parenthesis( )

11"And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?"

12"Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;"

13"That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?"

(This could be the earliest reference to plate techtonics /plate fault lines and earthquakes?)

14"It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment."

15"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken."

16"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?"

17"Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?"

18"Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all."

19"Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, "

(People of course did not know about photons or space-time/nuclear fusion etc.)

20"That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?"

(They would learn about electrons and electricity one day)

21"Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?"

24"By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?"

(How was light refracted, and how do diurnal winds form)

25"Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;"

(How did the i.e.Grand Canyon and other water/valley cuts form...how does sound travel through the atmosphere)

26"To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;"

27"To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?"

28"Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?"

29"Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?"

(This may reference all the ice of the solar system's Oort clouds that gave the oceans to Earth and other residual water on Mars etc. of the 11 or 12 planets Pluto and Lila as well as several moons anmost comets are just frozen water/ice. Today astrophysicists have theories about how it may have formed)

30"The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."

(This is a facinating possible reference to the near absolute zero temperature of space, and certainly the missing mass of the Universe is a problem for astrophysicists today. yet even the water out there in distant galxies is frozen solid in many instances and hard to locate)

31Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

(Following the interesting references to water in the Oort Cloud or Kuiper Belt areas, the itinerary travels farther out into interstellar space...and on to Arcturus)...

32"Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?"

(Mankind still hasn't the power to set the course around the galaxy of stars significantly, or really even a little bit...maybe one day before the age of the gentiles is fullfilled)