The slaying of two men and stabbing of a third in Portland aboard a light rail train is a reminder of how dangerous it can be to interfere, or intervene between complete strangers with issues. That includes the dangers to oneself presented when a compete stranger attacks or threatens to.
https://patch.com/oregon/portland/two-killed-they-tried-stop-hate-crime-man-under-arrest?google_editors_picks=true&google_editors_picks=true
I had a bit of personal experience involving a complete stranger in Oregon last spring at Lane College in Eugene. I had caught a bus to the college and was listening to music with earpods yet still at the bus stop. A stranger from the parking lot with an Indian woman with him apparently arriving to attend the Pow-wow on campus said 'I will kill you' and I looked in his direction to see him looking directly at me. I was uncertain if he was talking at me, and continued walking on. Yet it gave me some pause to think about what to do if a complete stranger presents a deadly threat.
My first thought beside the uncertainty about the context of his meaning and the problems about words, meanings and hostile witnesses was that I wassn't carrying a conncealed weapon with which to shoot center of mass if he actually attacked. In Oregon on public transit there is a possibbillity of street-level conflicts that can occur, sometimes with deranged individuals.
That brings me to Mr. Christian and the people he attacked aboard MAX. At the moment of the conflict his stress was probably increased by the 4 to 1 odds plus the burkha wearing woman. One wonders I supose why he was yelling and verbally chastising complete strangers who were obviously Muslims. The issue of why the three men choose to confrnt and suppress Mr. Christian is another part of the story.
Three men presumably with iphones that have great video with sound ability could have just remained seated, recorded the incident and sent it off to the Portland police. The women were apparently not in danger and MAX is never more than 5 minutes from the next stop. Five minutes before someone could have exited MAX and no one would have died perhaps.
Standing up to intervene made the three guys half of a situation with an angry guy cocked to unload emotionally. They should have thought about that, and of their ability to fight (was it any good) before trying to make the guy back down.
If they had video'd the event remaining seated Mr. Christian probably would have been angry and yelled or attacked them (also being recorded), shut up so as not to be recorded, or continued ranting thus contributing to an excellant rant video. Why do all those police shootings get video'd yet when the left intervene there is no video or video with sound?
About names and necessity though. Many years ago I did some research on the names of people serving time in prison and discovered that an anomolously high percent had names that obviously would create some social or psychological transference of association issues for the bearers. For obvious reasons I won't cite any real examples. Consider though the effect of having the name 'Clinton', Jack the Ripper, or Putin at various times in American society.
Christians have been targets of attack by Muslims for more than 20 years now, and since 9-11 that has been at a very high level. Large Christians were purged from the MIddle East. Just a couple of days ago 20 Coptic Christians were killed on a bus in Egypt. Every time sch an issue arises it influences someone that bears the name and reads a headline or hears a radio report to the effect that another Christian was killed. My point is that Jeremy Joseph Christian may have been pre-conditioned to not feel good about burkha-wearing Muslims moving into the neighborhood, espeecially in a punky social environment with the temperature seasonally increasing. There are many people that just lose the necessary social reserve in the WIllamete Valley mass transit systems during the transition from spring to summer I think.
Socially the three interveners seem to have been predisposed politically to sympathize with the abused Muslims for political or other reasons-even so far as to comprise ad hoc law enforcement. Yet the help may have triggered what otherwise might not have been a violent situation-I can't say, the facts aren't published that far.
MAX is supposed to have cameras that record such incidents aboard. The interveners might have used their cell phones and just recorded and sent the video to the Portland Police and Mr. Christian might have been arrested if he had actualy broken any laws. Depending upon how the incident is examined, he may actually be able to claim self-defense against four attackers receiving sympathetic media acounts. I wonder what Christian Fodenvensel of OPD thinks about it, if anything.
The take-away is that if one decides to intervene in any situation less than clear and present danger to someone's life, one must be aware of the possibility of one's own life becoming in jeopardy, and rationally be willing to defend to the death, and with some capacity to have a chance to stay alive in combat. One should never expect aderanged individual to be either unarmed or unwilling to kill you. One does not cooperate or play with felon attackers.
https://patch.com/oregon/portland/two-killed-they-tried-stop-hate-crime-man-under-arrest?google_editors_picks=true&google_editors_picks=true
I had a bit of personal experience involving a complete stranger in Oregon last spring at Lane College in Eugene. I had caught a bus to the college and was listening to music with earpods yet still at the bus stop. A stranger from the parking lot with an Indian woman with him apparently arriving to attend the Pow-wow on campus said 'I will kill you' and I looked in his direction to see him looking directly at me. I was uncertain if he was talking at me, and continued walking on. Yet it gave me some pause to think about what to do if a complete stranger presents a deadly threat.
My first thought beside the uncertainty about the context of his meaning and the problems about words, meanings and hostile witnesses was that I wassn't carrying a conncealed weapon with which to shoot center of mass if he actually attacked. In Oregon on public transit there is a possibbillity of street-level conflicts that can occur, sometimes with deranged individuals.
That brings me to Mr. Christian and the people he attacked aboard MAX. At the moment of the conflict his stress was probably increased by the 4 to 1 odds plus the burkha wearing woman. One wonders I supose why he was yelling and verbally chastising complete strangers who were obviously Muslims. The issue of why the three men choose to confrnt and suppress Mr. Christian is another part of the story.
Three men presumably with iphones that have great video with sound ability could have just remained seated, recorded the incident and sent it off to the Portland police. The women were apparently not in danger and MAX is never more than 5 minutes from the next stop. Five minutes before someone could have exited MAX and no one would have died perhaps.
Standing up to intervene made the three guys half of a situation with an angry guy cocked to unload emotionally. They should have thought about that, and of their ability to fight (was it any good) before trying to make the guy back down.
If they had video'd the event remaining seated Mr. Christian probably would have been angry and yelled or attacked them (also being recorded), shut up so as not to be recorded, or continued ranting thus contributing to an excellant rant video. Why do all those police shootings get video'd yet when the left intervene there is no video or video with sound?
About names and necessity though. Many years ago I did some research on the names of people serving time in prison and discovered that an anomolously high percent had names that obviously would create some social or psychological transference of association issues for the bearers. For obvious reasons I won't cite any real examples. Consider though the effect of having the name 'Clinton', Jack the Ripper, or Putin at various times in American society.
Christians have been targets of attack by Muslims for more than 20 years now, and since 9-11 that has been at a very high level. Large Christians were purged from the MIddle East. Just a couple of days ago 20 Coptic Christians were killed on a bus in Egypt. Every time sch an issue arises it influences someone that bears the name and reads a headline or hears a radio report to the effect that another Christian was killed. My point is that Jeremy Joseph Christian may have been pre-conditioned to not feel good about burkha-wearing Muslims moving into the neighborhood, espeecially in a punky social environment with the temperature seasonally increasing. There are many people that just lose the necessary social reserve in the WIllamete Valley mass transit systems during the transition from spring to summer I think.
Socially the three interveners seem to have been predisposed politically to sympathize with the abused Muslims for political or other reasons-even so far as to comprise ad hoc law enforcement. Yet the help may have triggered what otherwise might not have been a violent situation-I can't say, the facts aren't published that far.
MAX is supposed to have cameras that record such incidents aboard. The interveners might have used their cell phones and just recorded and sent the video to the Portland Police and Mr. Christian might have been arrested if he had actualy broken any laws. Depending upon how the incident is examined, he may actually be able to claim self-defense against four attackers receiving sympathetic media acounts. I wonder what Christian Fodenvensel of OPD thinks about it, if anything.
The take-away is that if one decides to intervene in any situation less than clear and present danger to someone's life, one must be aware of the possibility of one's own life becoming in jeopardy, and rationally be willing to defend to the death, and with some capacity to have a chance to stay alive in combat. One should never expect aderanged individual to be either unarmed or unwilling to kill you. One does not cooperate or play with felon attackers.
